Published: 28 Jan 13 11:54 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/opinion/20130128-47593.html
Despite the global hype, Berlin can still be a provincial place – especially in higher education. Which is why one of the city's universities should switch to English in order to attract the skilled workers Germany so desperately needs, argues Der Tagesspiegel's Markus Hesselmann.
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
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Your comments about this article:
I think it's unfair to dismiss as "arrogance" the understandable desire of the nationals of any country to be educated and do business in their own language within their own country. What's wrong with that? Why automatically give an unearned advantage to native English speakers everywhere in the world, really? There's already a lot of business or academic research you can do in Berlin (or Paris, or Amsterdam, or Stockholm) in English and with just a smattering of German or of the local language of said cities. This trend is probably going to increase, and I'm fine with that. I like the English language and the more it is used for business, the more opportunities for me too.
But sometimes, just speaking proper English is not nearly enough. I often see job offers in Berlin that are restricted to "English native speakers only", and I feel cheated by this. When is this going to stop?
Anyway, I'm sure the so coveted "best brains" are bright enough to reach an acceptable a European language like German, which sure is hard to learn, but being related to English, it's still a reasonable challenge.
http://www.daad.de/deutschland/studienangebote/studiengang/en/?search[degree]=all&search[subject]=&search[elang]=2&search[admissionsemester]=all&search[city]=Berlin&search[_token]=d53ccff54cdaad65e77791ccfbbbed0fc0395b37&search[a]=result&search[lang]=en
Most of these programmes are virtually free of charge for both German and foreign students as they are paid for by German taxpayers. In addition, there is at least one private American college in Berlin.
To be honest, I don't see the point of your article.
I fully agree. It seems that the author ignores the fact that only 20% of the foreign students in Germany remain in the country after graduating and that probably the most significant reason is their poor level of German (http://www.thelocal.de/education/20120424-42127.html#.UQZseR2P8wg). So before offering more free/cheap courses in English (1 in 10 students in Germany is already foreign), it would be probably wise to make sure foreign students learn German at a decent level (for professions that require an university diploma, I would say C1). Otherwise they will not be really valuable to the German economy.
But let's not allow facts hinder Mr. Hesselmann's last idea for an article on a slow day.
The issue seems to be two things:
German universities, are lacking when it comes to global standings. None of the universities in Germany are ranked within the top 100 for MBA degrees of any specialty, or in the top 50 for Engineering. It seems to be more of a question of quality. I actually attended a German university (MBA program) after getting my MBA in the U.S. to make myself more marketable in this country when I moved over and it was a big waste of time. It was literally a review of subject matter that I had been introduced to during my sophomore year of undergrad.
Next, the starting pay is not very good, especially when ranked with some of the bigger management trainee programs, and analyst level positions in the U.S., China, and elsewhere. I figured that out after working up from a praktikant, to a project manager for a German firm (in Germany) and still making less than my cohorts back in the U.S. After giving it a chance I see it as everyone else does, it is much better to be educated somewhere else, and get paid to come here as an expat.
I am not sure what is your specialisation, as you refer only to passive use of language (understanding the conversation). I would tend to believe that B1 is not enough to efficiently express yourself in a business environment.
"None of the universities in Germany are ranked within the top 100 for MBA degrees of any specialty" - The Economist tends to disagree. They listed Mannheim Business School at no. 36 in their worldwide ranking. Bloomberg Businessweek and Financial Times held the mentioned university quite high as well.
As for Engineering, the same Financial Times thinks ESMT - European School of Management and Technology is quite good (http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/european-school-of-management-and-technology). Which one did you attend?
We should not forget that the Bologna Process meant that the German educational system had to reorganise itself and re-apply to the international accreditation bodies. Both the preparation for accreditation and the accreditation itself take each couple of years. So it might be a question of time more than a question of quality.
@ ChrisR & Iwexcel -- it is self understood that an expat package is always more attractive than a local contract, but one has to qualify or earn it so to speak. Who in his right mind will choose a local package vs an expat's??
On this article, if an English Uni will so -called help to retain talents to work in Germany, does it mean business operations who wish to employ 'foreign-talent' will have to switch its operation language to English??
It is totally unrealistic ..
At ChrisRea... Christine Reachler, or whatever the name is... disagree with you on this- B2-C1 is more than sufficient to express yourself in a polite way. Again, it depends on the company, there are very old style conservative environments that will expect the same level of German as English, as if this were important for global business. I am sure mutterprachler Swahili is also mandatory someplace but would you really make everyone learn it?
wexcel - completely agree with you. Waste of time to invest going through the motions of tradition just to get half the pay.
"B2-C1 is more than sufficient to express yourself in a polite way. " - Of course, no doubt about it, they are enough for a polite conversation. But we are talking about doing business here and that means clearness, precision and speed. It is not the end of the world if you pick the wrong article or use the wrong Past Perfect tense. But if it takes an hour to write a readable e-mail, you are not very effective. Again, we are talking about professions that require an university degree. If you sell shoes (a very respectable job, please do not misunderstand me), B1 can get you through.
Two things are apparent. First, no two people in the picture are on the same page in the book, which likely means very little. More interesting is that not a single student has a computer on their desk, which must mean the picture is OLD. In any US lecture hall, nearly every desk would have one.
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Maybe the main obstacle is the fact that it is Berlin. As noted in a previous story right here on our very own thelocal.de, maintaining your own cultural identity in Berlin is very frowned upon. They do not even like Germans from other parts of the country celebrating or taking part in events specific to their region in Berlin.
Either be a melting pot or do not be a melting pot. But do not criticize the foreigners you say you want to bring in when they maintain some of their heritage. Yes if you live in a country you should adapt to its culture but that does not mean completely giving up your own.
More broadly entire Europe has to make a decision about second language. They can¦#39;t keep printing 20+ different languages for all member states in the EU meetings. For outsiders, English will be the preferable choice, but I guess Germans and French will be up in arms.
I say we should be a bit colorful and go with Bayrisch for the universal language or better yet Samoan. It is not a crazy idea, it is what a former boss of mine called "Edgy". lol
If the people of Germany are not receptive to foreign language format, then those opportunities will continue to steer to Paris, Amsterdam and London
If Germany was not so insecure it would have established such alternative business language institutes in major cities like Berlin long ago. There is room and scope for all. English language tools are essential international attributes in business and commerce. German preoccupation with and social intergration in this century is very quaint but certainly not too the only model for life on this planet.
Say it as it is McM. Short and to the point ! No need for long comments with little weight.
Call a spade a spade. Excellent analysis.
Also, it would make it worth remaining a member of the European Union and the native English speakers in the world wouldn't have to be prepared to stop the Germans from trying to control the world a third time .
It's a long shot, but we for the sake of our children, we should support this idea.
B2-C1 Christian Reatlinger: the whole debate was around brains coming to Germany, and assuming also qualified workforce:
Build exportable expert> 18-22 years of education+
lingua franca English> 3-5 years to master business level very optimistic+
official language German> 3-5 yrs to master basics- business level?
dialects spoken in street and office> unknown- even possible?
In the spirit of common understanding, how about the natives begin to speak the official language (B2 will suffice) and the foreigners can try to meet them halfway?
A supply of sharp pencils could cost 5€ a month; essential for trying to budget in the face of surprises in the form of "arbitrary" local charges, etc. the extent of "mad money" could be 100€ or less per week. Which doesn't provide a lot of latitude for discretionary expenditure for personal enjoyment; while stimulating the economy.
Although Germany offers more than financial incentives; taking a "pay cut" compared to what other countires may be offering is a disincentive.
And while English is the lingua franca for dealings with international (and Bavarian :-) ) business partners; the language of the country is German. The German as uttered by bureaucrats is especially impenetrable for those with non-native language skills. Heck; I've helped "natives" understand the instructions on ticket machines; instructions seemingly written by people who must be paid by the syllable. The solution to that problem isn't to publish translations of all the rules, regulations and laws into 67 different languages. The nuances don't translate easily; if at all. Not even into English.
at least thats why i am leaving after finishing my PhD.
I understand your frustration caused by not mastering the language of the country. Especially if you come from a country that does not promote learning foreign languages. However, you cannot reasonably expect 80+ Mio. people to change their language only to suit what, maximum 100.000 potential immigrants?
If you are serious about learning German, 1,5 years are enough to reach C1 level (from A1) and still have time for a part-time job and family (I am talking about a real case that is not particularly gifted in regard to languages). So students spending at least 3 years in Germany have plenty of time to learn the language. Still, only 20% of them do this. So I would say that investing in more courses in English is a pretty inefficient way to attract skilled workers, contrary to the "romantic" view of the present article.
And I must say although I'm in the middle of an A2 german level only, this wasn't a barrier for my PhD in Bavaria. I came knowing 0 german. Everybody in my department talks in english with me without any problems. I'm the only foreigner in the group and because of me the meetings are held in english. And I even had to give lectures for a class of international masters students, from everywhere in the world, of course in english, as so do my other native colleagues. So there isn't such big language barrier, at least where I am, and there is a lot of exchange going on in the university.
Ultimately, these people tend to 'go home', but understand Germany better.
That is a good thing for Germany.
We have several dozen high schools and dozens of universities in the USA that do this. It is NOT a bad thing.
The question is what is the motivation to learn the language? What is the motivation to learn the language when I want to study German language I pay exorbitant fees? What is the motivation to learn the language when I apply for work although I know German I am discriminated against? What is the motivation to learn the language when my professor will always give German students good grades and foreign students bad grades? What is the motivation to learn the language when I greet my fellow classmates who are Germans or even dorm mates and they simply past by? What is the motivation to learn the language when I sit by a German in a train, bus or tram he or she simply stands up and find an alternative sit? What is the motivation to learn the language when during exams although the study program is in English, Germans are given preferential treatment to write the same exam in their mother tongue? What is the motivation to write the language? Tell me why I should learn it? What are the benefits?
Wikipedia documents 83 private and 45 church-sponsored universities that are not funded by the German government. There are about 100 universities that ARE publicly funded in Germany.
This type of university is VERY likely to be private with no government funding. It would certainly have to pass German standards and MIGHT have German students in it, though.
First of all, I am sorry for your frustrating experiences. I guess many of us experienced such negative emotions when confronted with another country/culture.
Secondly, I thank you for vividly supporting my point with your personal case. Why should Germany spend more money on providing courses in English, when most of the students will not bother to learn enough German to be able to work in Germany, just like in your case?
My guess is that these financial resources are better used to expand the affordable German courses provided by Volkshochschule (1-1,5 Euro/hour, am I right?).
@Gladwellmartin: Sadly, you are correct. Even if you do master the official language and speak fluently, if you have the slightest accent that shows you are not a "muttersprachler"/ native, you have no chance. And then you have to factor in the dialects.
Consider it years lost, or just a nice "additional language mastered" in your resume. Or, just some additional Euros in your pocket. Have fun in Germany, and don't take it too seriously.
If people want to live and study in a foreign country, they should learn the local language. I think it is rediculous that a special English-only university should be made just to make it easier for foreign students.
If I were to go and study in a foreign country I would make a big effort to learn the local language. Others should do so too. For example, if I am gong to study in France, I will learn French!! If people are to lazy to make the effor to learn a foreign language, it's their fault! And believe me there are a lot of lazy students out there who expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. But to expect that a culture should restructure itself to meet the demands of globalization, is wrong in my opinion. If people are not willing to learn the local language, then what the h___ are they doing there? English is not the native language of Germany, of France, of Italy, of Spain, Denmark, Poland, etc--and in no way should an English-only curriculum be forced upon a university in any European country. If a university wants to offer some courses in English, that's fine, I have no problem with that.
In my opinion, this is just another example of how the globalization-machine is trying to destory local cultures and erase local languages.
With a privately funded school, students from other countries could attend class in their native language while off-hours time is spent in Germany. They would need to be at least conversant in German to enjoy the country. I suppose that some might just isolate themselves to the campus, though.
Students from Germany might do this as a first-step to investigating going to school in another country.
In any event, it is a culture exposure that other key European countries have been doing for many years. The Ukrainians have had one in Germany for 50 years. We are just talking about doing it in Berlin...
Freie Universität Berlin offers courses in English since the '60s.