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Study reveals shocking scale of Nazi camps
Auschwitz, Poland. Photo: DPA

Study reveals shocking scale of Nazi camps

Published: 02 Mar 2013 16:03 GMT+01:00
Updated: 02 Mar 2013 16:03 GMT+01:00

According to a report by New York Times due to be published on Sunday, US researchers have catalogued 42,500 Nazi-run camps which were set up in Germany and throughout occupied Europe – tens of thousands more than previously thought.

Previous postwar estimates had put the number of Nazi camps and ghettos at about 7,000, wrote the paper.

Holocaust historians were shocked by the scale of the revelations, the result of a thirteen-year investigation by researchers at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. Beginning in 2000, researchers set out to document all the sites in Europe where the Nazis imprisoned, tortured and enslaved their victims between 1933 and 1945.

"The numbers are so much higher than what we originally thought," Hartmut Berghoff, director of the German Historical Institute in Washington told the paper.

"We knew before how horrible life in the camps and ghettos was, but the numbers are unbelievable," he said. Until now, historical records of the Nazi camps had been fragmented - this is the first study to document them in their entirety.

The research also highlights the variety of the Nazi-run camp network, which by the end of the war spanned from France to Russia, with the majority of sites clustered in and around Poland and Germany, wrote the paper.

During the war, the Nazis used the network to systematically imprison, enslave and murder millions of European Jews, homosexuals, Roma and Sinti, Poles, Russians and many other ethnic groups in Eastern Europe.

An estimated 15 to 20 million people died or were imprisoned in the camps, lead researchers Geoffrey Megargee and Martin Dean told the paper.

Pulling together data from 400 contributors, researchers unearthed not only death camps and euthanasia centres, but also thousands of forced labour, POW and transit camps, along with centres where pregnant women were forced to have abortions and brothels where women were forced to have sex with German soldiers.

The camps began appearing in Germany almost as soon as the Nazis came to power in 1933. The sheer number of them – 3,000 in Berlin and 1,300 in Hamburg alone – meant there could be no doubt that the Germans had known about their existence at the time, head researcher Dean told the New York Times.

“You literally could not go anywhere in Germany without running into forced labour camps, POW camps, and concentration camps,” said Dean. “They were everywhere.”

The Local/jlb

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

Your comments about this article

19:45 March 2, 2013 by wood artist
It would be interesting to know what criteria they used to identify a "camp." Personally I would assume that it was a more or less permanent place and held at least a dozen or more inmates, but I have no idea what thresholds they used. That number sounds quite high, but I have no reason to doubt their findings. It would just be nice to know where they drew the line between a "holding cell" and a "camp."

wa
19:52 March 2, 2013 by Anny One again
From the start of 1939 until the German invasion in September, a number of concentration camps for Germans, including Chodzen, were erected. Also, German population were subject to mass arrest and violent pogroms, which led to thousands of Germans fleeing. In 1,131 places in Poznan/Posen and Pomerania, German civilians were sent by marches to concentration camps.

Following the Second World War, the Soviet-installed Stalinist regime in Poland erected 1,255 concentrations camps for German civilians in the eastern parts of Germany that were occupied and annexed by Communist Poland. The inmates were mostly civilians that had not been able to flee the advancing Red Army or had not wanted to leave their homes. Often, entire villages including babies and small children were sent to the concentration camps, the only reason being that they spoke German.

www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Concentration_camp#Poland

I guess concentration camps were everywhere in Europe
20:06 March 2, 2013 by jg.
The Germans killed about 27 million Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians during WWII and 18 million of those were civilians (considerably more than anything achieved by Stalin's regime). It stands to reason that this level of slaughter would have required some degree of planning and organisation.
20:20 March 2, 2013 by Anny One again
Maybe,they thought they can get away with it like the British ?Wich they have.

"1. British Indian Holocaust (1.8 billion excess deaths, 1757-1947; 10 million killed in post-1857 Indian Mutiny reprisals; 1 million starved, 1895-1897 Indian Famine; 6-9 million starved, 1899-1900 Indian Famine; 6-7 million starved under Churchill, Bengali Holocaust 1943-1945].

http://mwcnews.net/focus/editorial/458-churchills-crimes-a-chilcot-inquiry-on-iraq-war.html
20:21 March 2, 2013 by RajeshG
All this information is interesting but it should have only academic interest. One cannot be going back to the past again and again. To say that germans were aware of these camps and they did nothing - what could an average german have done then? or for that matter what can an average american do for Guantanamo Bay camp or Mr. George Bush's decision to attack Iraq for so called non existence of mass destruction. What can an average Israeli do about shutdown of Gaza?. One bad act cannot justify other bad deeds but we need to learn lessons from past which unfortunately nobody is doing and we will continue to have endless dramas of apologies.
21:21 March 2, 2013 by EffectivelyME
"It would be interesting to know what criteria they used to identify a 'camp.' "

Okay, so you are suspicious. You should say what you really mean, which is that you do not believe them. I like being cynical, but be up front about it.

On Sunday, you will be able to look it up. And if you discover, they used a petrol station garage to hold three people, then you can go on the attack again!
22:05 March 2, 2013 by Omufu
Nah, I think Wood Artist has a really fair question, it's not cynical. I mean, three thousand in Berlin? That's a very, very high number. I believe the number, but it also makes me wonder about the definition. It simply would be a good piece of information to have so we know what they're talking about.

Also, regarding what Anny One again said, it is a fair statement to say that the majority of countries have at some time been involved with genocide and/or atrocities on a large scale. England, USA, Australia, Canada, Portugal, Spain, Russia, China, Japan etc. have been involved in these things. I have heard it said though, and I tend to agree, that Germany, more than any other country, has faced its past. It has bent over backwards, forwards, and every which way to express how terrible those things were and how appalled and sorry they are. Personally I think it's enough now. People can be proud to be German again.
23:38 March 2, 2013 by Vargaz
Only one question here: WHY do so many people constantly rehash and resurrect the Nazi's and their atrocities? Its been 70 years already. These people are like stubborn old junkyard pit bull dogs clinging onto the fossilized bones of the past as it if serves a beneficial purpose. Its nauseating and it's time to MOVE ON and FORGET it. We learned the lessons, embraced them, and embody the determination that is shan't happen again. That's not to say there aren't current genocides that need addressing but, those are not our creation nor within our power to end.
00:21 March 3, 2013 by Heuchler
They will never put this topic to rest. British did so many crimes in India/Ireland/America. The British prime minister went to India but pretended like nothing major happened on the subcontinent. The same is true with US/Spain/Turkey etc. Russians did the same on the Jewish people. In Russia, Jewish persecution was institutionalized. No balls to point your fingers at the Russians! Unfortunately they keep picking on Germany. Hypocrites and Jerks! Leave Germany and Germans alone!!
00:59 March 3, 2013 by Hermy
It will never be put to rest because of what Germans know about themselves. It's there, just below the surface. No matter how much they scrub themselves they will never be clean. "Leave Germany and Germans alone!" Really? 70 years ago when the German Jews were saying the same about themselves, your grandfather was rounding up his neighbors. Later he was goosestepping across 26 other countries in Europe and Africa.

It's what Germans know about themselves. That they could do it again.
09:10 March 3, 2013 by Raydoggy
Anyone who believes anything the New York Times says, needs their head read.

It is the most racist newspaper in the world, always slanting against the Palestinians, who are living in a gigantic concentration camp by the way.

Let they who have not sinned, throw the first stones.
09:10 March 3, 2013 by Repatriated
the Holocaust (registered trademark) will continue to be shoved down Germany's throat for the next hundred or so years because it appears to be a cottage industry.

Why is it that there is no public outcry or pressure for the British or Russians, to mention a few noteable perpetrators in recent history, to fess up and pay financial retributions for their well-documented and orchestrated Holocaust (R) crimes?

Omufu has hit the nail on the head in saying that "Germany is the only country that has bent over backwards, forwards and every which way to express how terrible those things were and how appalled and sorry they were."

As long as Germany can bleed euros and continue to remain guilt-ridden passive then there will be a long line of takers to collect whatever they can.
09:31 March 3, 2013 by The-ex-pat
@19:45 March 2, 2013 by wood artist

It would be interesting to know what criteria they used to identify a "camp." Personally I would assume that it was a more or less permanent place and held at least a dozen or more inmates, but I have no idea what thresholds they used.

This was also my first question. I would imagine that they are using modern day definitions to recategorise the way it is calculated. It seems to be the way it is done now. Anything that happened in the near to distant past is being held up to the light of modern standards..................closely followed by calls for compensation to the great, great grandchildren in general.........
09:32 March 3, 2013 by cynicoren
@Raydoggy - The Palestinias do not live in concetration camp. They have Villas in Gaza and the west bank, far more expensive and bigger than the houses you and I live in - combined. If they wanted peace, they'd stop launching more than 12000 rockets at Israeli CIVILIANS over the past 10 years. Moreover, they chose Hamas who publicly calls for the destruction of Israel. Or, they are financed by the world's no.1 terrorist supporter - Iran. Or -until the building of the wall in the west banks, there were suicide bomber exploding all over Israel almost on a weekly basis. But I guess you already know that, right?

You are right. Lets destroy the wall, and lift off the blockade - instead of smuggling missiles through tunnels, let them use a faster way to arm and launch attacks at civilians. It is more important to be treated positively by Al-Jazeera and the BBC than to stay alive.
10:13 March 3, 2013 by raandy
Having recently read the book "Bloodlands Europe between Hitler and Stalin" by Snyder, you realize that most of the exterminations were conducted in the East, that fell under communist control and kept away from the west until the wall came down.The accounts of former inmates and people familiar with the times will no doubt be much worse than you believed previously.
11:00 March 3, 2013 by Darra
Guys, read more carefully

"Pulling together data from 400 contributors, researchers unearthed not only death camps and euthanasia centres, but also thousands of forced labour, POW and transit camps, along with centres where pregnant women were forced to have abortions and brothels where women were forced to have sex with German soldiers."

Wood Artist is right. We need to know the deatil, otherwise it's not any diffrerent than today: Picking garbage om the side of a high way is also "forced labor" . But it's also a punishment for some petty crime. Entire families , including children are forced into camps in different countries - they are called " immigration camps", Woman ( and children) are forced to have sex in some brothels all over the world - there are crimminals who force peole in prostitution. Etc, etc.

Asking questions has nothing to to with antisemitism. It's just clarifying the facts.

And @ Hermy . If you tell us your nationallity, we'll tell you all the horrible things that your people did to other people. Every nation or group of people had done horrrible things to others at some poit in time. So , yes , put it to rest. If there are some war criminals left, go after them and stop blaming the entire nation.
11:23 March 3, 2013 by wood artist
To everyone who followed up upon my comment, let me add this...

No, I'm not cynical, and I said EXACTLY what I meant. The term "camp" could mean very different things to different people. If we started with an assumption that a "camp" meant a place like Buchenwald, then that new number is astounding, and honestly hard to accept. On the other hand, it is well known that there were many "sub-camps"...often associated with a particular factory or work assignment. So, the question stands...what constitutes a "camp" in this new information.

If a group of a half-dozen workers were held somewhere, working (as an example) to defuse bombs, is that a "camp?" It certainly would be a "facility" of some sort, but most people wouldn't think of it as a "camp."

I'm not remotely interested in proving or dis-proving any history, nor do I have any disagreement with this data, only that it is difficult to determine exactly what it means. As a student of German history, I'm simply trying to integrate this information to what I know already. I didn't say I didn't believe the information, because I don't disbelieve it. I would simply like to put this into context. Whatever their basis for classification, I have no intention to "go on the attack" because that wasn't the point.

wa
12:58 March 3, 2013 by michael4096
This is a dangerous study because it is a total irrelevance dressed up as enlightenment. The holocaust was a lesson to the world because it industrailised mass murder, it doesn't matter if it was spead over 4 camps or 40000. On a purely practical note, there are at least two reasons why the facility number must be high. The first is the changes in scope and capability of the nazis over these twelve years saw facilities close and new ones opened everywhere - like big multinationals today. Secondly, the nazis sytematically purged almost every town and village between the German border and Moscow / Volga, an immense distance.

The logic leap from there were so many 'camps' to all Germans were 'in on it' is contemptuous. Most German civilians were busy trying to stay out of these camps not count them.
16:14 March 3, 2013 by HerrBaum
Forget the details, "someone" wants new guilt money from Germany probably cause taxes went up in the US again. Plus they must keep this alive to continue the flow of fresh cash from newer generations.
16:39 March 3, 2013 by realist1961
It is interesting to hear how removing a portion of the Berlin Wall is losing touch with history, but digging deap into the facts of the Nazi era is opening up an old wound. Which is it: we keep the Wall and tell it like it was or we remove it for luxury apartments and forget the past? I say move on, but I also think the "art" on the Wall looks more like graffiti than art.
18:22 March 3, 2013 by guliver
Herr Baum

New Germany=post war generations have nothing to do with the crimes of the 2WW.

The victims who lost their family and spent the war in Auscwizim and Dachau are very old and sick now they have not many years left to live and after they will pass away the compensation payments for them is no more needed and will stop.

no need to worry on "new compensations need"

Did you know? in order to get compensation you had to prove you were in KZ to feel documents and to be checked by German doctors or local doctors who were authorizzed by German, people like my parents who had the number A+LINE OF NUMBERS TATUIRED ON THEIR ARMS WERE RECOGNIZED IMMEDIATLY
18:53 March 3, 2013 by World_View
This NY Times "story" is rubbish. The thesis is the Germans took he 7-11 Convienance Store approachand thus there was a Camp on every corner 3000 in erlin along?? Interesting, because it is a fact that the Jewish Hospital in Berlin was still operating when the Red Army arrived in late May, 1945 and Jews still ived in their homes in Germany, The Red Army raped them along with the Germans and their own POWs and Camp inmates. There is also no mention of Camps and Gulags in the Soviet Union, Britain and the UNited States. This article has made a sensational headline "New Information", what new information??? all it is is a review of a bunch of books, most of which are mot likely false, sources are not provided. The N Times has had scandals in the last 5 years and riters fired for printing false stories. Under the premise of this "story", every jail and prison in Gemany where every day criminals and other crooks wre held, is classified as a "Camp". Utter non sense in an effort to connue the campaign of brainwahsing the nextgeneration and to keep the "holocaust industry cash flowing"
19:20 March 3, 2013 by realist1961
I see sanctions have not shut down the Iranian internet
20:06 March 3, 2013 by Leo Strauss
The WW 2 Guilt/Neo Nazi phantom terror menace is a double edged PSYOP rolled out as part of the program to kowtow the German people into accepting Germany's criminal role in NATO 2.0 and the evolving EU technocratic tyranny. The people who facilitated the rise of the Nazis are still around and they are running things. Democracy vs Nazism/Communism = New World Order. That is their Hegelian design. Such articles as these have a purpose and it isn't to make sure that 'it never happens again.' Let's try to keep our eye on the ball, Loco Readers.
21:17 March 3, 2013 by wood artist
Now that the article/story has been released, we learn a little more about his measurement devices. For example, he speaks of a "camp" which consisted of about a dozen people taken from Dachau to München-Schwabing and forced to do domestic cleaning for an ardent Nazi supported. Okay, I have no argument that these people were still oppressed and that they undoubtedly suffered. They were, according to his reporting, whipped and forced to do a variety of things. I do not deny they were mistreated, but I do struggle with defining their incarceration site as being "a camp." I'm not sure I have the best possible term for that situation, but something like a "remote" or "auxiliary" site seems more reasonable.

I don't really care, because it doesn't "change history" but the huge number he's touting seems misleading, given that the term "camps" means something more massive to most people. That doesn't make his research "bad" nor does it remotely deny that there were "bad things" all over the Reich, just that the use of the term "camp" becomes questionable when applied to these situations.

As the article says, this work might make it easier for a survivor to document a prior claim, and that's fine. However, I find myself honestly wondering if, along the way, he sought to inflate the number by being so loose with his methodology. Maybe...maybe not. I guess I would have preferred some better system of classification, with greater clarity than a single, overarching term.

wa
22:05 March 3, 2013 by zeddriver
@Vargaz

That's easy to explain. Not only is WWII very recent history. It was the very first war that was so well documented by all sides through film, Still photos, Paper documentation, Interviews/ documentation by survivors. The communications by WWII were fairly instantaneous via radio. And remember. We are talking about the Germans. They were and are very precise and document everything. It was the first time we have had the opportunity to fully study the how's and why's of how WWII was started by the treaties of WWI. So even though it was a terrible event in world history. It's is also a fascinating thing to study. I for one don't look at anything in WWII history and think I should hate Germans. Nor do I think they (the Germans) owe anything. Just look at the treaty of Versailles and see how much land was taken away from Germany by the league of nations. Yep! WWII was started by the league of nations. The league of nations became the united nations. That should tell you what an evil bunch they are.

In the US. We do not try to forget nor sweep our own civil war under the rug. There is an old saying. Those that do not remember history. Are bound to repeat it.

The one universal negative though. Is that unfortunately. A lot of the worlds citizens don't seem to have the ability to separate state actions from the civilian citizens.
22:18 March 3, 2013 by Leo Strauss
"We knew before how horrible life in the camps and ghettos was, but the numbers are unbelievable,"

'Unbelievable' is an apt description. :)

The source of this new 'information' and 'research' is the Holocaust Memorial Museum and is passed on by the New York Times. Hmmm. Source Objectivity? Motives?

The New York Times is as credible as Pravda, which is kinda ironic cuz...

After the Fall of the Wall and the demise of the Soviet Union western historians gained access to Nazi KZ records which had been withheld from them by the GDR and the USSR. In the early 90s there was a rush of new historical work released based on this access which indicated that the Nazi crimes had been EXAGGERATED by the Communists in a propaganda campaign to discredit the FRG, which the East Bloc condemned as a revanchist neo-Nazi regime (Not to forget that the East Germans never admitted to any guilt for what happened during the NS regime). Needless to say, this trend was very quickly reversed and the official narrative again firmly re-entrenched by the establishment and of course, Hollywood ('Schindlers List', 1993), for example.

Fast forward to 2013 where we now learn that it was even worse than we thought... before we found out that it wasn't as bad as we thought!

Are these shills without shame and how stupid do they think that we are?

@ zeddriver

Who founded the League of Nations and the United Nations? :)
23:10 March 3, 2013 by zeddriver
@Leo Strauss

Woodrow Wilson. A very "progressive" (read) liberal President. Who advocated the usurpation of a nations sovereign power through a unaccountable consortium of world leaders called the league of nations. Which we were never a member of. And so had no vote in the splitting up of Germany and the Ottoman Empire. The US balked at the terms of the Treaty of Versailles. Noting that not only did it not fit the US's interests. But that it would lead to a future conflict. Which it did. And that treaty was the impetus of future problems in the middle east. As it was the British and French that advocated the carving up of not only Germany. But the break up of the ottoman empire. Which was divided among the British and French governments. Again. The US felt that this would lead to conflict.
00:09 March 4, 2013 by Leo Strauss
@zeddriver

Right on Z, thanks for taking the time.:)

Ever heard of 'Colonel' House? He was a puppet's puppet- Wilson's special adviser who was pulling his strings for the banksters behind the scenes back in the day. These are the characters who have been pushing for World Government all along and still are through mouthpieces like the New York Times. The same ones who set up the Federal Reserve Bank in 1913 just in time to dish out juicy war loans to the Allies AND the Germans during the First War.

As their useful idiot Wilson later lamented: 'I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.'

After the Second War the Rockefellers bought the property that the UN complex now stands on in Manhattan for 8.5 mill and then 'donated' it to the UN cause.

It goes on and on...

Z, you should check out the works of Prof.s Carroll Quigley and Anthony C. Sutton on the web. You can find a lot of their books in PDF if you are interested in the so-called Deep Politics that mainstream history doesn't cover. :)
00:52 March 4, 2013 by zeddriver
@Leo Strauss

I'll check those out. Although. The deep politics of control through all the shadowy figures are something that I fear we will never be rid of. At least until the folks stop buying all the mainstream press's Childish rantings about what we should have the government buy for us. It just diverts attention away from the real troublesome issues.

There is a good book out there. But it is a hard read. "the creature from Jekyll island" And covers the beginnings of the Federal reserve.

This was foreseen over two hundred years ago by the 3rd US president Thomas Jefferson.

¦quot;If Americans ever allow banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless¦quot;

Thomas Jefferson.

But we as citizens of America and those of Europe as well were duped by the powerful that the governments job was to coddle us. And protect us from ourselves. So we as citizens don't understand the process. Then scream and yell for the government to borrow yet more money to give us. Giving yet more power to those banks that the very same citizens complain about. It's like a drug addict taking more drugs and then thinking that's the way to kick their habit.
01:24 March 4, 2013 by Leo Strauss
@ Z

Thanks for the recommendation. The Creature from Jekyll Island, by G. Edward Griffin is a must read. You might like 'The Gods of Money', by F. William Engdahl too- it covers the time spanning from the founding of the Federal Reserve to the 2008 financial crisis and has a lot of info on Germany, if that interests you.

I think that you are right about these shadowy characters but I believe that we have to try to expose them and their methodology now before they can run their game again, which they are doing with paint-by-numbers predictability. They and their kind will always be with us, but we can at least hold them in check- The price of liberty is...you know the rest. Their greatest advantage is secrecy and ignorance. Glad to hear that you are reading and are on to them. Keep spreading the word. Jefferson was right, as you point out, but all is not yet lost.

The first condition of any successful engagement is to identify the enemy. :)
01:59 March 4, 2013 by Icke Ricke
Say are John Demjanjuk, Nikolai Malagon Fedorenko, Petrovich, Marchenko, Komarkin, & Mr. Rebeka German names? No. Did they run Camp Trawniki? Yes. Enough said.
04:46 March 4, 2013 by PrussianAmerican5
Every country or culture that has ever had any real power has abused it, the scale of the atrocity only relative to the size of the nation exercising its hegemony. Churchill engendered a fake famine in India during WW2 killing 3 million, the Belgians murdered 10 million Congolese shortly before WW1.

These "scholars" sure love their Apple phones and laptops made at factories in Communist China, they do not seem to mind that Chairman Mao murdered between 30-70 million people.
05:11 March 4, 2013 by roboni
This means everybody did know what was going on.
16:29 March 4, 2013 by Tom Billesley
What use is knowing the precise number of death camps or killing fields?

By simply estimating populations of ethnic groups before and after the Holocaust it is obvious that the numbers missing presumed dead are in the millions. That knowledge in itself is sufficient to condemn the Nazi regime. Precision isn't necessary in this case.
18:45 March 4, 2013 by Anny One again
Axis Powers:Nazi Germany,Kingdom of Italy (1940­1943),Hungary (from 1940),Empire of Japan (from 1941),Bulgaria (1940­1944),Independent State of Croatia (from 1941),Kingdom of Romania (1941­1944),Italian Social Republic (1943-1945),Slovakia,Polnish Wehrmacht( White Eagle's Legion)

Non-Axis Co-belligerents:Manchukuo,Mengjiang,China-Nanjing,San Marino (1940-1943),France Vichy France (1940-1944), Finland (1941­1944),Kingdom of Iraq (1941 only),Thailand (1942­1945)

For example;The Katyn massacre,red Army killed polish Officers and made the Nazis responsible for this for years,this falsification of history held until 1990 throughout the whole Eastern Block. Same for Operation Overlord /D-Day,the Allies killed more French citizens during the campaign, as the Nazis throughout the whole war with France.How often do people have the number of victims of the entire WWII, whether Pacfic, Asia, the Balkans, Africa or elsewhere and put it on the Germans bill.
18:46 March 4, 2013 by Istabraq
Fully agree with @prussianAmerican5. Hypocrisy at its worst.
20:19 March 4, 2013 by Englishted
@ Anny One again

You are a real expert at twisting things ,just one example the French and overlord :where do you get these "facts" from? ,How long was "the whole war with France"

because naturally in 1944 the Allies were not fighting France so the Whole war " with France was in 1940 and only till France surrendered ,forgetting the forced slave labour the deportations and the retaliation murders committed by the Nazis following the said surrender.

Whatever spin you put on it the Nazis were the cause of WW2 and everyone with half a brain should be thankful that the were so completely defeated and must never be allowed to rise again.
23:10 March 4, 2013 by Anny One again
Englishted,iam not twisting anything !

Well,you may have forgotten the WWI.Most Germans thought the war would last only six months be terminated and the winter time.We know how it turned out.What the Germans has not forgotten was,how the Allies treated the german civilian population, after they surrendered and signed the treaty of Versailles.Ever heard of the Occupation of the Rhineland and how the Allied forces had harassed the civil population with looting, rape, killing while drunk.Especially the foreign colonial troops of the french.I don`t mean your or the official version.German factories were unable to function, and the German economy suffered, further damaging the country's ability to pay the reparations.Starting a passive Resistance and going over to the Ruhrkampf (Ruhr struggle) in 1923.France has forced the whole of Germany for forced labor,until the Dwaes Plan was introduced.But it is true,the mortality of french citizen during D-Day was higher,the french tried to invade Germany and after the Invasion of France.
23:22 March 4, 2013 by Hell low Kitty
@Anny One again

.....citizen during D-Day was higher,the french tried to invade Germany and after the Invasion of France.

You mean "as"or "then"the french tried to ....
01:50 March 5, 2013 by zeddriver
@Anny One again

Your statement.

How often do people have the number of victims of the entire WWII, whether Pacfic, Asia, the Balkans, Africa or elsewhere and put it on the Germans bill.

Sorry. But he who starts a war has all the dead put on their bill. As no one would have died had someone not started said war. Simple really.

I suppose in your world. If you were to run a car off the road. And that car subsequently killed a pedestrian. You would try and claim that the pedestrians death was not your fault.

Are you a politician?
01:54 March 5, 2013 by Anny One again
Thanks Hell low Kitty ! Yes,you are right,without it,it gives a complete false meaning.

@Englishted,I just react at Toms Posting.I am simply tired of these myths and gloryfied undifferentiated stories in one way and differentiated in the other and of course i am glad that the Nazis was defeated.But war is hell and i am intrested in the untold stories.By the way did you know;In 1939 had the regular British army had just a strength of 227,000 men, including British troops in India and Burma.Because the British were tired and exhausted after WWI.and had no draft at that time.On 27 September ca.152,031 brit.soldiers, 21,424 vehicles and all necessary weapons and supplies had arrived in France.The Dunkirk evacuation, commonly known as the Miracle of Dunkirk or Operation Dynamo,was the evacuation of Allied soldiers from the beaches and harbour of Dunkirk, between 27 May and the early hours of 4 June 1940, because the British, French, and Belgian troops were cut off by the German army during the Battle of Dunkirk in the Second World War.A total of 338,226 soldiers (198,229 British and 139,997 French) had been rescued by the hastily assembled fleet of 933 boats.Had the German not stopped and closed the bag,the War would be over for Great Britain.But Britain was not so harsh to the German like the french in the aftermath of WWI.Perhaps that was a part of the reason to stop most of the attacks during the Operation.
12:15 March 5, 2013 by wood artist
@Anny One again

We will likely never know with certainty exactly why Hitler stopped the attack at Dunkirk. There are several theories, each of which makes some sense.

He wanted to conserve his panzer units for his planned attack on Russia.

He wanted to "go easy" on England, still believing that he could broker a peace deal and face only Russia later on.

He felt that the Luftwaffe had been denied much "glory" in the war thus far and/or Goering convinced him to let him destroy the remaining troops.

He believed the ground was unsuitable for panzers.

His troops had out-run their supply train, were tired, and needed to rest and refit before finishing things.

Any or all of these could have played a part, and there is evidence to support all of them to some degree. It's also pretty likely that he never once considered Operation Dynamo possible. Remember, he was completely ignorant of naval operations...and even admitted that...so he quite likely couldn't imagine doing what the English did.

What happened is pretty clear, but the why remains unknown, even with all the material captured at the end of the war. As to the original question, I think the use of "camps" to describe some of the places the author included creates an inaccurate impression of things, which is not to say the "little places" didn't exist, nor that conditions for inmates weren't terrible regardless of where they were housed.

wa
18:34 March 5, 2013 by guliver
world view

Jews were still living in Belin in 1945 in their homes?

the Jewish hospital in Berlin function in 1945?

Sure and my Jewish grandfother was in Berlin and not in Dachau ,actualy he was never murded there but lived in his appartment in Berlin and tried to hide his nice neighbour Adolph Hitler...
18:59 March 5, 2013 by DOZ
Maybe the New York Times should complete a study on the number of Aboriginals it's Armies exterminated to get total control of the US of A.
20:27 March 5, 2013 by Englishted
@ DOZ

?
09:39 March 7, 2013 by dimazxyz
this is nonsense, i live in germany, you people actually believe about this "holocaust camp" are everywhere? this is looks like a jewish propaganda try to make people feel sorry for them, it has been 70 years but still talking about this crap? why dont we make some news about what the jewish did to palestinian people in Gaza?
18:48 March 7, 2013 by guliver
di mazxyz

the victims are still alive and they have not forgotten what happened to them and their families,

but you talk about what the jews did to the Palestinians in Gazza ,what make me think you are an arab and your reasons are all others then care about Germany image.

You live in Germany,so I did for 3 years and most of the feedbacks I got as a Jew was a sorry response of what happened ,there was allways empaty for what happened to the victims and I got in 3 years the feelings that most of the Germans are not happy with that part of the past.
16:40 March 8, 2013 by dr.makni49
New York Times needs to be sanitized for the bias and its willingness to accept poor pieces of research. It fails to answer why did it throw in a spanner at this time. The contents of the report, motives and the timings are intriguing.

US media has not been able to conceal its inconsistencies. Germany bashing must cease. If for some reason it has to continue, such brilliant work should surface in tandem with others, some suggested elaborately above. Read another episode of a very elite source bungling the facts and an answer by a Russian:

"Is Freedom House¦#39;s ¦quot;alarmist stance¦quot; toward Russia fully justified?

"I don¦#39;t think you need to be an expert to answer this; it¦#39;s an elementary issue of common sense and face validity. Consider the following: Freedom House gives Russia a 5.5/7 on its ¦quot;freedom¦quot; score, in which 7 is totalitarianism (e.g. North Korea) and 1 is complete freedom (e.g. the post-NDAA US)... I¦#39;d say it¦#39;s pretty obvious that Freedom House has a definite bias, which looks something like this: +1 points for being friendly with the West, -1 if not, and -2 if you also happen to have oil, and are thus in special urgent need of a color revolution," Anatoly Karlin, blogger and political expert, says in his comment for our latest experts' panel.

http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_03_06/Freedom-House-bias-if-a-country-has-oil-and-is-unfriendly-with-the-West-it-urgently-needs-a-color-revolution/
16:56 March 8, 2013 by dionisof
history is written by winners , not the loosers.......
00:38 March 9, 2013 by LightningSun33
Typical left-wing propaganda. The number of the camps is actually much smaller than what was reported, not larger. And the people put in them were there because they were undesirables and/or had run afoul of the law. One thing seldom mentioned in history books is how when the KZL were "liberated", the prisoners ran riot thoughout the countryside, raping, pillaging and murdering the unlucky citizens they came across. Another interesting fact is that many of the people locked up by the allies after they occupied Germany were *surprise!* originally prisoners of the Germans in the KZL. So there was a reason for them to be there,and with many of them, it was the only time they had ever put in a real day's work.
09:40 March 9, 2013 by whatsup
People are very quick to say it is a 'jewish conspiracy' - how sad.

For people interested in history, try reading:

BLOODLANDS - by Timothy Snyder - A good update of what happened in Russia and Germany before and during the WWII. Most of this information was hidden behind the 'iron curtain'. This book was recommended by The Economist.

Update your history!! Many people on this comment page sound very ignorant.
09:42 March 9, 2013 by guliver
the number of the camps their location and their names is well known.

what happened in that camps is also well known and well documented by the NS regime.

Who was brought to the camps is also well known,

at least the 6 millions Jews murded there they were brought there because of their race and religion with one purpose-extermination,also that is well known and documented.

Prisioners rape and kill? at least those few Jews who manged to survive Auschwiz and Dachau were so sick ,weak , depressed unwilling to live that it is evil even to declare such declaration, most of them weighted about 50 kg and were considered Muesslelmann
20:42 March 9, 2013 by LightningSun33
For Guliver: the fact that so many rapes, murders and crimes were committed by the KZL prisoners who were released is proof that not all were weakened by typhus and unable to hurt people.The prisoners of Niederhagen KZL by Wewelsburg Castle pulled together to protect the townspeople from the angry prisobers of other KZL were were taking out their anger on any Germans they ran across. The prisoners of Dachau and Buchenwald and Mauthausen sure seemed to have no trouble attacking and beating and disembowling and killing the guards, did they? Nobody is saying all of the KZL prisoners did things like this, but many did. It is documented and photographed. Undestanding the tuth is a two way thing, which means that people need to understand the negative things that the allies did, which are either covered up or excused with "Well, the Germans all deserved it and it's their fault anyhow,"
21:35 March 9, 2013 by guliver
lightningSun33

well.something I have learnt from you , as far as I know the victims my family side were weak and sick to do such things , how many Jews liberated from KZ were able to take revenge in their SS guard who tortuded them and burn their families , that I do not know to tell you,certainly things like that did happened from the small part of angry Jews who lost their families,actually I heard much more about the red army who entered Berlin,but if to resume the sad argument ,the murder of the Jews in Europe and the crimes against the Jewish people were with huge number of victims 6 millions murded in very cruel ways and from them 1.5 million children and if you compare that to the number of cases in which the Jewsih prisioners took revenge in the SS guards -it is really unporportional.
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