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More Turks in Germany than previously thought

Published: 02 Feb 2013 10:45 GMT+01:00

These latest figures, revealed by daily newspaper the Süddeutsche Zeitung, have caused a ripple of surprise.

The 300-page Migration Report for 2011, which the federal cabinet signed off on this week, is a veritable encyclopedia for immigration researchers and politicians.

The 2010 report showed 2.48 million residents with Turkish roots, but the 2011 report said there were 2.95 million. The paper said that was odd, as an immigration of a half-million people would surely have been noticed.

Additionally, the number of people living in Germany with a Turkish passport actually dropped between 2010 and 2011 by nearly 22,000.

A change in the way people are counted, according to the Berlin-based “Media Service for Integration” caused the final figures to come out differently.

The nearly half-million increase has to do with 471,000 children, born in Germany to families with a Turkish background and are German since birth.

Previously children with a Turkish background did not show up in the data if their parents had Turkish roots. These children were categorised as “people with an immigration background without any information regarding their land of origin.”

That has now changed. Now statisticians are noting the land of origin – however only if both parents are from the same country. Separating out the land of origin for children born to Chinese-Russian or Polish-Romanian couples is too complicated.

These new numbers show that roughly half of Turkish-German children are born in Germany.

The paper said this should have a positive effect on these children’s education because kids with a German passport and a Turkisih background are on average more successful in school that the previous generation.

The Local/mw

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

Your comments about this article

12:03 February 2, 2013 by sonriete
I could have told you this, all you need to do is walk around any city to see this.

I'm not sure what they mean though by saying it will have a positive effect on these children's educational experience, because before these half million children were characterized as German and now they list them as Turkish-Grrman, to me that change is meaningless, I understand the idea that second generation immigrants do better in school, that is true everywhere, but moving children around on a statistics list changes nothing.
12:11 February 2, 2013 by pepsionice
Statistics are a wonderful thing. If you went strictly by them....the German national soccer team would be the greatest team on the face of the Earth. Sadly, they aren't.

I would make this long-distance prediction. The sons and daughters of Turks born in Germany...will have kids of their own....over the next two or three decades...and those kids will have almost no connection to Islam or to Turkey. Most will ask why the heck they had to have Turkish sounding names, and go to the process of changing their name by age eighteen.
12:43 February 2, 2013 by smart2012
First, as soon as the guys have a Turkish family name, the reputation they have in Germany is not changed if they hold or not a German passport.

Second, Germans are becoming very friendly with Turkish (on the paper, not on day to day stuff), cause turkey is the most growing country in Europe (last year even in the world). Lets remember that Germany few years ago was the biggest opponent of turkey entering Europe (last year turkey silently was asked by Germany to join EU, turkey told rightly to f. off).

Last, Turkish new generation should go back to turkey to live, they will have much more opportunities (now is the perfect timing as per above), and the advantage of speaking English and German would help.. Being Turkish in Germany unfortunately is a weak point.
12:47 February 2, 2013 by Louie
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
13:57 February 2, 2013 by raandy
Statistics are like whores, play with them long enough and they'll do anything for you.
15:25 February 2, 2013 by yourkeau
Oh, Nazis on the forum, how predictable. There used to be 6 million Jewish Germans in Germany, now we have 3 million Turkish Germans, but the level of hatred they experience is similar to that of back in 30s.

Fortunately, the history from the past will never repeat.
16:42 February 2, 2013 by Louie
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
17:39 February 2, 2013 by smart2012
yourkeau, i agree with your comment, except one point:

"Fortunately, the history from the past will never repeat"

I am not so sure about that.

If Germans keep reading BILD, nationalism will keep growing
17:41 February 2, 2013 by socalbremer
ahhhh...one can almost always count on a Nazi accusation ( regardless of the topic....) . Regardless, simple demographic trends , i.e., lower German birth rates and higher Turkish, portending a far different "German" society in the next several decades.
19:12 February 2, 2013 by Englishted
@pepsionice

There has been a rise in women wearing headscarves around this town and most are second or third generation of the original guest workers.

Plus there are now three Islamic places of worship within 20 k.

So if you believe there will be integration anytime soon may I kindly ask you to look at the U.K.'s Pakistani population to see that sadly it just is not going to happen ,yet the West Indian population mixes fine ,so I can only put it down to religion and as far as I know religion is not a race ,so please don't tar me as a racist.
19:51 February 2, 2013 by RonHess
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
20:00 February 2, 2013 by raandy
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
21:54 February 2, 2013 by sonriete
@yourkeau, there were never six million Jews if Germany or even close, most of the 6 million Jews killed by the Nazis were from Poland or Hungary or further east.

I don't feel so pessimistic about racism toward Turkish people in Germany, most young people accept them as Friends and neighbors. I think it really is just a small minority that supports Nazis now, most from the east where they have so much unemployment, or else very old people.
22:11 February 2, 2013 by charlenej
What does wearing a headscarf have to do with immigration. There are tons of people in other countries (U.K,., USA, etc.) that where headscarves and are still considered and consider themselves British, American, etc. Why can't that be the same in Germany. Just because you wear a headscarf doesn't mean you can't integrate. It only means that now because Germans won't LET people with headscarves integrate. They keep "othering" everyone.
01:38 February 3, 2013 by hanskarl
If you (German couples) create a vacuum (have few or no children) someone (another people group) will fill it. No intent should be construed as being insulting to any other people group (non-German). It is not intended.

They are merely taking advantage of an opportunity by fleeing upheaval, unrest, persecution and no jobs to come to a country that is settled and very well off to fill in the low paying jobs no one wants or no people are available to fill created by low birth levels and working their way up the prosperity ladder.

It is happening just in Germany. Case closed. You get what you pay for.
01:44 February 3, 2013 by hanscarl
He (we) means: It is happening not only in Germany but in the US and numerous other well off countries who have become so full of themselves they can no longer see the forest through the trees..........
03:02 February 3, 2013 by wasserball
Let me see if I got this right...

That has now changed. Now statisticians are noting the land of origin ­ however only if both parents are from the same country. Separating out the land of origin for children born to Chinese-Russian or Polish-Romanian couples is too complicated.

Does that mean complicated situations are ignored?
07:53 February 3, 2013 by Icke Ricke
When I first heard of Germany's Turkish immigrants I thought of the relationship of Germany and Teutonic Mythology, of which I have studied, in that the gods originally came from Turkey. Maybe this has all happened before... but aren't you guys already very densely populated?
16:39 February 3, 2013 by Raydoggy
Have a Google search for murder rates, and you will find Turkey has 5 times more than Germany pro rata (per head).

Who are the main ones spitting every five yards on the footpath, something learned from watching camels I presume. Who are the ones talking so loudly on public transport as though there's no one else on the tram or train. Let's not mention their race, but you know them. Anyway, their race is not the issue, I'm sure any race would be welcome in Germany, but surely people's cultures can be challenged, especially when that culture creates disharmony within the host country.

I know many people from the from Istanbul who carry the same race as other people from their country, and the people from Istanbul are ashamed or the others, they say they are also disliked in Istanbul.

So before you pull the racist card, please ask yourself if what people really don't like is the culture. Because someone from a different race but behaving similar to the host country, I'm sure will be treated differently to the one who brings their incompatible culture with them and decides to disadvantage future generations by conditioning them with the old traditions as well.

I am not a racist, I am a Multi-Culturist, and I see no problem in voicing concerns about disharmony created by mixing such extremely opposite cultures.

Multiculturalism serves mainly the industrialists and the government who want cheap labour, to break unions and to push everyone's pay bargaining power down, if you think multi-national companies and governments support multi-kulti for altruistic reasons, you are totally delusional. I bet the greater majority of politicians and industrialists don't live in multi-kulti areas.
03:58 February 4, 2013 by lewis69
These statistics are scary. A population with a low birth rate like Germany can not absorb such a large amount of people with such a high birth rate like the turks. This will have irreversible impacts on the demographics, culture and gene pool of the country.

The same Scenario can be seen in all other western countries I think we risk losing our western culture and identity if we do nothing.
12:42 February 4, 2013 by michael4096
@lewis69 - your premise is false

1. Germany's culture is not a fixed thing but has been changing for 10,000 years and will continue to change, you cannot 'lose it' - dönner kebab anyone? Of course, the Turks will have "...irreversible impacts on the demographics, culture...", Germany will be a different Germany to what it would be without them but why is this a bad thing? Don't forget that your forebears were also immigrants - as for all of us.

2. Immigrants adapt to the local culture faster than the local culture to the immigrant. Immigrants to America quickly become Americans. Similarly, say, Indians in Britain are rapidly becoming as British as their hosts - food for many soap operas and sitcoms. Second or third generation Turks have no links to Turkey, they are Germans - if you let them be.

3. "...irreversible impacts on the ... gene pool..." are you sure you really want to go there? Lets just say that modern science actually applauds the expansion of gene pools.
20:36 February 4, 2013 by Englishted
@michael4096

Just to answer point 2 .

You may be correct with the Indians and the West Indians in the U.K. however the Pakistanis are not mixing even after 3 or 4 generations and that is not their culture it is simply down to their religion ,and I think the Turks are going to have the same problem ,I hope I am wrong but if you see the news coming out the U.K. I don't think I am.
21:13 February 4, 2013 by lovelybug
A strong culture will absorb a weak culture. A dominant culture will have impact on a weak culture. If western culture is good and right thing then western or Germans should not be afraid of anything. Right? or Am I missing something?
15:19 August 6, 2013 by Dyderich
Sadly lovelybug the issue here is not one of strong vs. weak culture, but one of population explosion. See how many people from countries where polygamy is rampant and allowed who now come to Germany to continue breeding their ilk in our country at alarming rates and then look at the welfare use and you will see emerging patterns...the issues here is not about Germans afraid of a stronger culture but Germans afraid of becoming a realistic minority in Germany. Can you imagine Germany being run by Turks? By Arabs? I can, quite easily as these people are coming non-stop with the stamp of approval by idiot politicians who think by adding more immigrant labour to Germany they will make everything better, but in reality they are adding to the enormous welfare burden. These are also the people who tend to be the most vocal opposition about anything western. You look at them and just shake your head...why are they here? They hate us, they loathe Germany, but yet they come in thousands upon thousands with their litters of children leeching off the government. Are they all bad, no but to say they are what is needed for Germany is the same as saying the Gas Chambers were needed for the Jewish population (since everyone loves to bring up WW2 stuff with our country). We have no issues with decent people and welcome pretty much anyone with open arms...we may look at certain races differently just because...but so does everyone else...we tend to be very tolerant nowadays to all races/cultures even to our own downfall as we are seeing each and every day watching the news...we will have the stigma of WW2 forever, regardless of what we do and it is enough that this will be the focal issue with people who think Germans are racist and intollerant....they will say anything similar but I expect these same people will never ever lift a finger to help their brethren immigrants which they have adopted for this country. They will say yes...give them this and that....oh wait I HAVE TO PAY FOR THIS? No way!!!! Make someone else pay for it. A favourite quote: Put your money where your mouth is...If you think all these people really should be here, then go forth and donate all your earnings for their living standards...we pay enough already and do not need to pay more for leeching intolerant people who come here to sponge off our hard earned work. The government folks need to stop the incoming tsunami of immigrants that is overtaking the local population and will ensure that Germany will be wiped out within the next few decades by the very people they are throwing their arms open to - the only good news is that most of us will not be around by then hopefully to see such a country sink.
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