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Playing the Jewish card in Germany
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Playing the Jewish card in Germany

Published: 17 Jan 2013 07:45 GMT+01:00
Updated: 17 Jan 2013 07:45 GMT+01:00

Can a German criticize Israel and not be anti-Semitic? Miriam Widman comments on the latest chapter of Germany’s complicated and often troubled relationship with the Jewish people.

German journalist and publisher Jakob Augstein was recently listed as one of the top ten worst anti-Semites in the world by the Simon Wiesenthal Center. The US Jewish human rights organization said it based its decision on German-Jewish pundit Henryk M. Broder's description of Augstein as a "perfect anti-Semite."

For me – an American-Jewish journalist – the story is not so much about whether Augstein is an anti-Semite, which I don’t think he is, but why Henryk Broder's opinion seems to matter so much.

The controversy started when reports revealed that Broder, a popular polemist long known for bashing critics of Israel, influenced the Simon Wiesenthal Center's decision-making.

The group listed Augstein, a respected left-wing columnist and adopted son of Der Spiegel magazine founder Rudolf Augstein, in the number nine spot of world's top ten worst anti-Semites – ahead of well-known US Jew-basher Louis Farrakhan.

I’ve followed Broder over the years. What fascinates me most about him is not his background – he was born to Holocaust survivors – or his prolific capacity to write – he has published numerous books, and recently switched to the right-wing daily Die Welt after working for left-wing Der Spiegel for years – but that one man seems to have so much sway over German public opinion.

Someone in his position in the United States would not spark such heated debates as he does in Germany. There have been many people called anti-Semites by prominent Jewish Americans – most recently US President Barack Obama’s choice for Defense Secretary – Chuck Hagel.

But while the remarks get reported on and commented upon, that’s about where it all ends. There are no ongoing debates in the media fixated about whether Hagel is an anti-Semite or not.

Okay – one could argue that getting on the Simon Wiesenthal list ahead of Louis Farrakhan for anti-Semitic/Anti-Israel slurs might be a bigger story in Germany than allegations that Hagel is an anti-Semite would be in the United States. Not so, I would say. After all Hagel is being nominated for a very important cabinet post.

No, the difference has to do with Germany’s history and with the fact, at least in my view, that it is the only country in the world where one can be a "professional" Jew. That basically happens when a key part of your working life is based on being Jewish, which is true of Broder. He’s a good writer, but he would have no where near the clout he has if he were Catholic.

This is understandable, given Germany’s past. It is hard to exterminate six million people, apologize after the fact, provide reparations to survivors and their families and expect everything to be okay. That just doesn’t work.

If the US experience between African-Americans and white Americans is any barometer, normalizing the relationship between Germans who are Jews and those who are not will take a very long time, if it happens at all. After all it’s been 150 years since the Emancipation Proclamation freed slaves – at least legally. And yet, there's still plenty of racism in the United States.

But if relations between Germans who are Christian and those who are Jewish are to normalize not only do Christian Germans have to stop emphasizing the special German-Jewish relationship, but Jewish Germans have to too.

You can’t complain about feeling not part of the society if you constantly throw the Jewish or anti-Semitic card onto the table during every discussion, which Broder seems to do his fair share of.

It has, however, only been some 70 years since the horrors of the Holocaust – a short time in the arc of history. So don’t expect things to change – at least not for a very long time.

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

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Your comments about this article

09:20 January 17, 2013 by Big L
I agree with the writer that what Nazis did to Jews will not be forgotten in 70 years, probably not in 100 years. However, Jews will have to accept that what they are doing to Palestines will of course fall in the same category. I am not at all a Palestine supporter, but the fact is it will be regarded as a modern day Holocaust and the Jews will have to accept that they will get the same tag around their necks as the Nazis.
09:34 January 17, 2013 by design
Germany lost the right to criticize jews.. ask a jew and if you disagree, and your german ask your grandparents. because jewish have no grandparents to ask theya re dead.
09:41 January 17, 2013 by tjk77
I decided long ago not to view myself as a member of a victim group. It's a psychological crutch and an excuse for scurrilous behavior. People would do well to remember that Nazi Germany itself justified itself with stories of victimhood. Of course, if you refuse to apply a label to yourself, people invested in this kind of thinking just add "self-loathing" to your label.

Also, why do you divide Germans into "Christian" and "Jewish"? I guess I should be kind of glad that the rest of us are exempt from this entire discussion, but I wonder whether you just overlooked us or whether that was intentional.

Speaking of labels, isn't Broder German by choice? I mean, most of us didn't have the luxury of choosing our nationality, no matter how we feel about Germany. So which part of German culture, politics, and history does Broder actually identify with? Or is his citizenship just one of financial convenience?
10:07 January 17, 2013 by chrishale53
Big L's comment above is a classic example of modern anti-Semitism. To compare the treatment of Palestinians to the Holocaust is grotesque and ignorant. I would suggest Big L has a long hard think about his attitudes and does some proper research.

With respect to the article: discussions like this refer only to the tragedy of the Holocaust, the worst genocide in human history. What should also be factored into the analysis is the way the two Germanies east and west refused to acknowledge the moral reality of this terrible crime for so long after 1945. This repression of the truth ended only when Germany needed to present itself as a 'decent nation' as well as a prosperous one that makes lots of shiny cars. The consequence is a kind of national pathology.

This I think is the reason why Germans have a difficult relationship with Jews have such a difficult relationship - and will do so for the foreseeable future. I have often wondered whether some Germans secretly resent 'the Jews' for revealing the dark side of Deutschland.
10:40 January 17, 2013 by arbeitsbiene3
@chrishale53 #4

Someboby is Trolling.
10:47 January 17, 2013 by wood artist
The first line of the story could be true anywhere. If you dare to challenge the things Israel does, be prepared to be branded (automatically) as an anti-Semite. Germans may be in a touchier situation, but the whole world has been dealt the same card. The Palestinians shoot rockets into Israel and that's a Terrible Thing. Israel takes land that belongs to someone else...and builds "settlements" that are acknowledged to be illegal under international treaties they have signed...and we dare not challenge them. Hogwash!

They may or may not be the "chosen people" but that doesn't mean everything they do is automatically beyond reproach. They seem to feel they still have the ultimate Ace, and some of their defenders will play that card on every trick. Much of what is said about Israel today has little to do with WWII, nor should it be considered in that light. Of course, Germany will always judged differently, even generations removed from the Holocaust. I don't believe those acts should disallow Germany and Germans to have an opinion about the present day, nor should it limit their freedom to state that opinion publicly unless it is somehow directly related to those times.

wa
12:26 January 17, 2013 by elitebavarian
nice article and nice comment by @wood artist

Only Germans can free themselves from this 'curse' ... Look at the Americans, they have killed millions of innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan and still be proud. Same way Israel has killed and still killing Palestinians, but they don't show any kind of apologetic behavior and now look at dear Germans, their grandfathers did something wrong and they still feel sorry (after 70 years) for what they have nothing to do. Because of this guilty feeling, Germans can't even utter a word about the human genocide that is going on in Palestine.
12:33 January 17, 2013 by mitanni
@chrishale53 Your moral compass is broken. Really, what is wrong with you?

@elitebavarian Millions of innocent people? You really need a reality check.
13:27 January 17, 2013 by wood artist
@elitebavarian

I don't think you've drawn an appropriate parallel between the article and the situations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Afghanistan was a reaction to the 9-11 attacks and reflects the failure of that government to turn over the people clearly responsible for the attacks. I don't justify it, but it was understandable. The fact that the country/area is nearly ungovernable isn't something that can be laid purely at the feet of the US. Is it better now, or will it be in the future? Hard to know, but it seems likely to continue to be a problem, at least for the Afghans who simply want to live in peace.

Iraq, for most Americans, is a clear failure of our own government. Bush II wanted it, and tweaked the intel to make it happen. We all pretty well know that, and it was a war that never should have happened, even though Saddam was a tyrant. Unfortunately, after the dust settled a little, it became clear once again that you cannot simply hand "democracy" to a people who have never had it and expect them to make it work. That was especially true given the sectarian situation that existed. I'm not proud of the US for that escapade, and I suspect most people who are objective about it would agree. It was a war based upon a lie, and the first time in history that a democracy went to war voluntarily. I would disagree with the "killing millions" comment unless you can cite some figures that support direct US responsibility for that number. Far more deaths have been caused by civilians killing each other.

This is not about being proud, although there are great examples of that fault. Turkey's inability to deal with the Armenian situation, Japan's inability to confront their history in both Korea and China are easy examples. On the other hand, Germany has done a pretty decent job on that score, and although the current generations have little to do with it, they've openly tried to ensure that time isn't forgotten.

Over time, many of us have even recognized that the allies committed many of the same "crimes" for which Germany was held to account at Nürnburg. The firebombing of Dresden is an easy example, along with Hiroshima. The US conducted unrestricted submarine warfare just as Germany did, and certainly the conduct of the Russian army was anything but terrible. While those things were not necessarily comparable with the Holocaust, the forced relocation following the war certainly was, yet no one was called to account. I guess that falls into the general category of Victor's Justice. It was wrong, as was the US internment of Japanese-Americans, but the acknowledgement and response was slow in coming.

wa
14:24 January 17, 2013 by trevzns
@chrishale53 # 4 the worst genocide in human history. To compare the treatment of Palestinians to the Holocaust is grotesque and ignorant. I would suggest Big L has a long hard think about his attitudes and does some proper research.

Here is some research. The same group. Jews, Arabs and others formed alliances and can live together whenever its in their best interests. Recent european history. That same group had no issues oppressing indigenous peoples, stealing land while earning enormous profits from their slave trade enterprises.

The africans were labeled as animals and where treated as such, for over 350 years. Most of the Indians cultures in the americas did not survive, after coming into contact with this group of Jews, Christian and Arab merchants and traders.

Jews were involved at the financial center of that diabolical enterprise.

After more proper research of your own. Tell us again, what was the worst genocide in human history?
15:00 January 17, 2013 by Sastry.M
@wood artist #9,

An excellent analysis of recent world events. The German too are like any Europeans and given the industrial revolution of Europe advanced in many European nations, there should be some logic and rationale in its progress and capabilities of human effort, Germany included.

What defies any commonsense imagination is not the facts about the terrible crime of Holocaust that took place during the Nazi era, but the above human capabilities of Germans enabling them to execute with a perfect planning and financing the project, although they themselves were under the greatest human emergency, fighting against colonial super powers as an Axis nation in ww2.

If any allied nation could muster the courage and finances, even if imagining fancifully out of malice, to commit such an atrocious crime with one pointed determination within a short period under emergency , the genetic coding of human beings taking birth in Germany could have been conveniently modified with a dark blot of holocaust on their white skins who possess like any fellow Europeans.

But that blame is singled out only on these christian central Europeans whose population includes people of Jewish and other faiths, as is so in all neighboring nations, is a common European problem which has to be thoroughly investigated in a comprehensive and impartial manner given the present scientific progress in forensic investigation, increased strength of U.N bodies and above all the spirit of democratic revolutions sweeping around the globe under the aegis of super power democracies.
16:40 January 17, 2013 by mitanni
@woodartist "Over time, many of us have even recognized that the allies committed many of the same "crimes" for which Germany was held to account at Nürnburg."

WWII was different from prior European wars, in which both sides could claim at least some legitimacy. In WWII, Germany was the aggressor, and its vision for Europe was completely malignant and evil. That made the same physical act a crime when Germany committed it, but a valid defense for the Allies. By analogy, the physical act of shooting you can either be a crime or self-defense, depending on who started the confrontation.
18:07 January 17, 2013 by septiSeverus
Juden, herzlich willkommen zu Hause in Deutschland!

Jews, welcome back home in Germany!
18:51 January 17, 2013 by franconia
@chrishale ,why play only the shiny car card. You forgot the Sauerkraut and Cookoo clock card. Back under the Rock, NOW !
19:11 January 17, 2013 by sancie
@mitanni

"Germany was the aggressor, and its vision for Europe was completely malignant and evil. That made the same physical act a crime when Germany committed it, but a valid defense for the Allies. "

That's a funny view of morality. A war crime is a war crime no matter which sides commit it. The allies were no saints and they committed their fair share of atrocities. Granted, they may pale in comparison with the Holocaust, but then most things do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II
19:37 January 17, 2013 by guliver
As an Israeli I do not have problems if someone criticise my government,I really do not care if he is German,American ,French Italian ecc,as long as the critic is made by considering the wrong which was done and offering a reasonable solutions.

Also in Israel there are parties who criticise the government policy and this has nothing to do with anti semitism,

Anti semitic attacks are still happen in Europe in different countries where the cemiteries or the synagouges are the targets from time to time , or the religious Jews identify by they way they dress ,getting attacked.
19:58 January 17, 2013 by raandy
The Jewish card has some clout in Germany. Nobody here wants to be labeled anti semitic , no sir not here.and you can be reassured that some people play it.
20:59 January 17, 2013 by trevzns
@guliver #16

Yes, anti-semitism is a valid concern. What is your view on the increase of anti-semitism?

Off topic. While U.S. President Obama was outside the country in 2012. Prime Minster Netanyahu addressing the U.S. Congress. We¦#39;re not the British in India. We¦#39;re not the Belgians in the Congo. This is the land of our forefathers, the land of Israel, to which Abraham brought the idea of one god, where David set out to confront Goliath, and where Isaiah saw his vision of eternal peace. Mr. Netanyahu promises to give up the ancestral Jewish homeland to Palestinians - although the land he will give back, and more besides, was in fact their homeland for the 2000 years before 1967. Mr. Netanyahu denounces any who would deny the 4000-year-old history of Jews in Judea and Samaria, ­ claiming that it is they who present a distortion of history.

As an Israeli. What is your opinion? Mr. Netanyahu mixing politics and ancient Jewish Hebrew mythology to mostly American Christians? Also, Jews were involved in Belgium, as well as all other Europeans countries relating to Africa and the Americas colonization and the Transatlantic slave trade.
22:30 January 17, 2013 by wood artist
@mitanni

The point is that repugnant actions remain repugnant, regardless of the claim of "they did it too" or "they did it first." Bomber Harris knew that Dresden had no military value, and even admitted that when he struck the city he didn't even target the few things that might have military value. The war was all but over at that point, but he had all these planes and crews and not much for them to do, so....

The allies (collectively) did the exact same thing Hitler had done postwar, forcing all ethnic Germans to leave Poland et al, and in return forcing all "Russians" to return, even though they know Stalin was going to murder them. Take a look at the accounts of the Cossacks being "repatriated." The British could hear them being killed across the river, but continued nonetheless. Beyond the scale, there was no difference between that and the Holocaust!

The two atomic bombs might have been the straw that finally forced Japan to surrender, but they were done for before that. It, arguably, prevented the need for an invasion, and probably saved some lives...but possibly fewer than were killed by the bombs. That argument is based upon unproven assumptions.

The bombing of cities by Harris was undertaken simply because his crews couldn't hit anything smaller at night. One raid that sparked his actions was measured...and only 3% of the bombs fell within 10 miles of the target. So...he started bombing the "big things" meaning cities. Heck, one of his raids on Berlin missed the whole city! That night they simply plowed a lot of farm fields south of town.

In short, those were the very sorts of charges that put Germans in the dock at Nürnburg. None of those actions were justified by Nazi actions, and should be judged on their own. The "rape of Nanking" by Japan was nothing compared to the "rape of Berlin" by Russian forces. There's a good reason that memorial is still called "The Tomb of the Unknown Rapist."

In short, war brings out the worse in people, and sometimes those people are in charge. We need to be critical off all of those actions, not just those by the "good guys." If Israel does something today, it should be judged solely upon the action, and not upon some "well, they did it to use years ago" logic.

wa
07:14 January 18, 2013 by mitanni
@sancie,woodartist There is nothing "funny" about that view of morality: whether an act is just or unjust clearly depends on both intent and causation. That principle is deeply enshrined in our laws, and it also applies in international law. War crimes are the wanton destruction of cities or killing of civilians without military justification. I know of no evidence that Western governments sanctioned or ordered war crimes in WWII. There is no evidence that the firebombing of Dresden was wanton; at worst, it may have been bad judgment, but that is not a war crime.

I think people really forget how close Nazi Germany was to winning, and what the consequences would have been. I certainly wouldn't be alive if the Nazis had won.

As for Israel, I fully agree with you there: Israel's actions do need to be judged on the contemporaneous situation only. But that situation is entirely different. The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a local, low-level skirmish of little relevance to the rest of the world. And if either side seriously attempted genocide, the rest of the world could come in and stop it before it even starts. Mostly, the conflict is kept alive artificially by a bunch of politicians and religious leaders for their personal gain. The best thing the West can do is not to play along, give both sides a stern talking to, and ignore these people until both sides come to their senses, which will probably take at least a few more decades.
10:19 January 18, 2013 by ChrisRea
@ mitanni

"I know of no evidence that Western governments sanctioned or ordered war crimes in WWII." - sancie already indicated both alleged (well, they did not have a chance to be proved) and legally proven violations of the laws of war by the Allies of World War II. Denying them falls in the same category with holocaust denial. Not even the Jews have this right. There is no evidence that the Dresden bombing had any military importance - all potential military targets were carefully avoided. Even Wing Commander H. R. Allen said about it: "The final phase of Bomber Command's operations was far and away the worst. Traditional British chivalry and the use of minimum force in war was to become a mockery and the outrages perpetrated by the bombers will be remembered a thousand years hence".

"I certainly wouldn't be alive if the Nazis had won." - Many of my relatives could have been alive if the Allies would have not won the war. And I am not talking about the German part of my family. They had done nothing to justify their killing.

"The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a local, low-level skirmish of little relevance to the rest of the world." - Unfortunately this is false. When at least one of the parties has advance military capabilities like the nuclear bomb, we cannot talk about skirmish anymore.

"And if either side seriously attempted genocide, the rest of the world could come in and stop it before it even starts." - Well, that is what is happening right now. Without the intervention of the international community, things would be far worse.

The good news is that there are people like the author of this article, graciously admitting when a Jew plays the card of victimisation. So there is still hope.
11:15 January 18, 2013 by trevzns
@mitanni #20 I know of no evidence that Western governments sanctioned or ordered war crimes in WWII. The evidence is there for those who care to know. Unconditional surrender is just that, without conditions. No claims on crimes or lost of possessions. Another reason the state of Israel does want full statehood for Palestine. International criminal law.

@mitanni #20

But that situation is entirely different. The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a local, low-level skirmish of little relevance to the rest of the world. And if either side seriously attempted genocide, the rest of the world could come in and stop it before it even starts.

What is your understanding of genocide? And what is attempted genocide?

@mitanni #20

The best thing the West can do is not to play along, give both sides a stern talking to, and ignore these people until both sides come to their senses, which will probably take at least a few more decades.

Your logic is baffling? Do you know whats actually happening on the ground in the Middle East and under what conditions Palestinians, Israelis and others live....exist, is a better word?
14:07 January 18, 2013 by mitanni
"Your logic is baffling? Do you know whats actually happening on the ground in the Middle East and under what conditions Palestinians, Israelis and others live....exist, is a better word?"

Yes, in fact I do. But rather than anecdotes, look at the numbers. The per capita GDP of the West Bank is about twice that of Pakistan, and the combined death toll from the conflict and homicide is about the same as the US homicide rate. Or, to put this in perspective, Palestinians are about 1/5th as likely to be killed violently in the Palestinian territories than Mexicans in Mexico. Israel is, of course, doing a lot better than that still.

The conflict has been going on for many decades, and all attempts at mediation have failed. Both the US and Europe have spent hundreds of billions total on the conflict with no result. Israel politicians keep thumbing their noses at the US and Europe, and Palestinians continue to be intransigent as well. The only thing that keeps the two sides apart is their own obsessions with religion, history, and ethnicity.

There are a lot of suffering people in the world. I think it is immoral and indefensible to continue to focus so much on the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. This is not a conflict anybody else is responsible for, and it is a conflict that both sides are perfectly capable of resolving without external resources or external involvement if they want to.

What is your justification for why this conflict is more deserving of resources or attention than the dozen or so other active conflicts around the world?
14:21 January 18, 2013 by guliver
trevzns Personly I do ot vote for Netanyho's party I do not support his forgein and internal policy, I will probably vote for the Labour party as I allways did. Jews were not involved in slavery or in colonization, that is what European countries did with their governments a navy force, Jews were during that time permited to live in Ghetto's in Europe, were kept out from government jobs , could not buy or sell land,could not be lawyers or doctors ,and generlly were allowed to occupy in small comerce, ,shops ecc. just later between the 2 world wars the Jews had relative a free access to universities ,political jobs or free occupation. The slaves who were sent from Africa to America were mediated by the arabs and not the Jews. Chrisrea the IsraeliPalestinian conflict is a regional conflict between 2 people who fight for the same land,the basis of the conflict is national one, no side thinks that the other is a law race which must be exterminated from earth, both side have allready agreed that the solution must be 2 states living side by side in peace ,the leaders must realize that plan for the benifit of the two people. A genocide is a crime in which a government of a certain country announce that a special group of citizen who belong to a special race or religion or both has no right to exsist any more, all of them must be eliminate for the good of the world ,and therefore that government build KZ camps and arrest all these people after being segregate from the rest of the population, sent them with trains to Auschwizim and kill them children,old people, young people sick people ,babies all in a number of 3000 persons per day, the goal is not kicking them out of Germany and sending them to Africa but exterminating these people at all ,this is GENOCIDE.iDuring the Israeli Palestine conflict were commited crimes on both sides,the occuping territories are occupied trough a war in 67 between Jordan and Israel were the settlements a good idea? I personly think it was amistake, can we live with the Palestinian in peace ,I think it is possibile accepting the 2 states solution and the principe of land for a peace, it worked with Jordan and with Eygpt why not with all our neighbours. Is this situation to be compare whith what happened to the Jews in Europe ,not at all, total other situation the Jews were citizens of that European states for 600 years spoke the language and obay to the rules,did not put bombs or attacked the governments of their native countries ,it was the governments of those countries who decided to get ride of them.
15:40 January 18, 2013 by couchtripper
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
16:19 January 18, 2013 by dr.makni49
"For me ­ an American-Jewish journalist ­ the story is not so much about whether Augstein is an anti-Semite, which I don¦#39;t think he is, but why Henryk Broder's opinion seems to matter so much." It is hard to believe that 'American Jewish journalist" would not know why HB opinion seems to matter so much. In other words, the article has been put on dubious axis right from the start. From whole of the discussion, it appears that while Germans are well on way to ditch the themes of self-criminalisation about the holocaust, no longer tickling the hearts of Jewish friends, the Jew want two things very clearly from the entire world. One, keep on the chorus of perpetual grief or at least act that way about the holocaust to sooth Jews ire and keep reminging German in the process that your ancestors committed terrible crimes. Second, they must muzzle every one so hard so that world does not talk of any other genocide. I would suggest them they should read Cathie Carmichael's, Jew herself perhaps, book (Genocide before Holocaust) that proves that through out history any one whether Christians, Muslims or Jews got an opportunity, they ripped each other apart. What happened to Jews in Germany did not happen to them alone. There were other nationalities also. If some one wants to shed tears for Jews after several decades, may be fine but also remember other as well. Between 1918 and 1945, if Russian war deaths were 22 million people, Bolshevics killed their own people, not in hundreds but staggering number, 66 million, far surpassing than Jews who perished during the holocaust. Why the world or at least Russian do not mourn them?Whether it is a Jew, Christian or Palestinian, Iraqi, Afghan Muslims, blood letting is abhoreable but history tells us that the massacres would continue because those who engineer it, causes or people, are never even mentioned. German have the right to leave the past behind. Let us not scold their elders in clever ways. I say it while I am not German.
17:01 January 18, 2013 by guliver
coutchtripper

we in Israel do not call you anti semitic,just an enemy with whom we must fight and win.
17:29 January 18, 2013 by chrishale53
Franconia - is sauerkraut a major German export? Anyway - what a sour and ignorant outpouring of racist nonsense this article has provoked! Dare I say it was just like lifting up a rock - and look what's underneath!
19:08 January 18, 2013 by mitanni
@guliver So your version of European history is that for the past 500 years, European Christians were one big happy family of landowners, mainly concerned with choosing between becoming lawyers or doctors, but then generally just opted to put Jews in ghettos and cause mayhem around the globe. Wow. Is that what you learned in school? Or did you figure this all out for yourself?
21:01 January 18, 2013 by guliver
mitanni

I have a very good knowledge of the Jewish history in Europe during the last2000 years ,I do not know what you have learnt but the reallity was not splendid ,from the persecution and the forcing of the Jews in Spain through the catholic chruch,through repeated pogroms in the European countries west and also east european mainly from religiouse reasons, the pogroms in Russia,Polen and other communities all over Europe were allways their ,laws against Jews which did not permit them to purchase land ,did not give them the right to vote,the right to study in the universities or the right to work in free professions ,of course during those 2500 years of settle of the Jews in Europe also the European people had revolutions ,fights,poverity and misery but in all this periods the small communities in Europe were allways oppresed and their members deprived from their civil rights,the top of the atrocities happened between 1933-1945, but these pogroms were all over and during this 2500 the Jews have not had but a very short period of tranquility ,one of them was immediatly after the French revolution as they got civil rights, and also between the 2 world wars.

And I have not reached yet the describtion of what happened to my mother and fother and their families during the last world war,and no I did not figure it my self ,they told me every thing they should come through and believe me it is much more and real then any horror film which is produced in Hollywood, and even less terrified then the wars I took part here as a soldier.
23:51 January 18, 2013 by codinenc
The SWC didn't state that Mr. Augstein is within the ten worst anti-semites of the world, they put him on the list of the "2012 Top Ten Anti-Semitic/Anti-Israel Slurs" - I don't understand why almost all media outlets in Germany are repeating that Mr. Augstein would be, according to SWC, the 9th most dangerous or worse anti-semite? To publish a list of the top ten anti-semites every year wouldn't make much sense, because there would be always the same people listed. Of course is Samir Kuntar a far worse and more dangerous anti-semite than the sophisticated Mr. Augstein. But as a German, I find unacceptable that almost the entire press is in favor of Mr. Augstein, from the left to the right and all starting from the wrong assumption that the SWC declared Mr. Augstein to the ninth most dangerous or worst anti-semite. The SWC provided example sentences of Mr. Augstein on their list, e.g.:

¦quot;The fire burns in Libya, Sudan, Yemen, in countries which are among the poorest on earth. But those who set the fires live elsewhere. Furious young people burn the American, and recently, the German flag. They, too, are victims, just like the dead at Benghazi and Sanaa. Whom does this all this violence benefit? Always the insane and unscrupulous. And this time it¦#39;s the U.S. Republicans and Israeli government.¦quot;

The Jew (disguised as the (insane and unscrupulous) Israel government) is represented as the arsonist of the world, while the world is the will-less victim - an allegation that is well known in the history. Really, dear fellow Germans, you are not able to see the anti-semitism in the sentence above, whether left or right, not even one of the "scientists" of the Berliner Zentrum zur Antisemitismusforschung (Research Center of Anti-Semitism Berlin) was able to recognize the anti-semitism in the sentence above? But it's even worser than this, most articles in the German press didn't even make the effort to analyze the sentences of Mr Augstein.

Oh, and the commentator above, who declared that Israel is commiting a genocide on the Palestinian people: Would you mind to explain me how you can speak of a genocide, if 1948 there were about 800 000 Palestinian refugees and today there are more than 4,7 Mio. Palestinian refugees?
01:34 January 19, 2013 by Anny One again
@guliver #24

Jews and judaism in the United States - by Rabbi Marc Lee Raphael

http://rense.com/general69/invo.htm

"Jews also took an active part in the Dutch colonial slave trade; indeed, the bylaws of the Recife and Mauricia congregations (1648) included an imposta (Jewish tax) of five soldos for each Negro slave a Brazilian Jew purchased from the West Indies Company. Slave auctions were postponed if they fell on a Jewish holiday. In Curacao in the seventeenth century, as well as in the British colonies of Barbados and Jamaica in the eighteenth century, Jewish merchants played a major role in the slave trade. In fact, in all the American colonies, whether French (Martinique), British, or Dutch, Jewish merchants frequently dominated.

"This was no less true on the North American mainland, where during the eighteenth century Jews participated in the 'triangular trade' that brought slaves from Africa to the West Indies and there exchanged them for molasses, which in turn was taken to New England and converted into rum for sale in Africa. Isaac Da Costa of Charleston in the 1750's, David Franks of Philadelphia in the 1760's, and Aaron Lopez of Newport in the late 1760's and early 1770's dominated Jewish slave trading on the American continent."

Or watch on You Tube - The Shocking Jewish Role in Slavery

Don`t get me wrong I don`t share his agenda,but he has some points,for example with the question;Why is collective White guilt assigned for the slave trade,but no collective Jewish guilt?

And on the other Hand you were a little bit wrong I think.

Jews were present even before the wars in various professional groups and often very successful, even in Germany. That was eventually one of the main reasons for the envy and resentment.These Jewish Nobel Laureates have not only studied and worked in the United States or Israel.They were also accepted in Europe long before the WWs.

http://www.israelnet.de/nobelpreis.htm

You can recognize in this list something else, if you know what I mean.It is often forgotten that a marriage between catholics and protestants was not always evident, even to the end of the 60ties.Religious differences were at that time in many families still very decisive
03:09 January 19, 2013 by mitanni
@guliver You probably have very good knowledge of the Jewish history in Europe, but you're apparently lacking in knowledge of the non-Jewish history of Europe or the Americas. Many of your ancestors were massacred, disowned, expelled, forced to convert, couldn't own land, and couldn't choose their professions? Neither could many of my non-Jewish ancestors (I'm not speaking generally here, we actually traced it back). Europe was run by crooks, crime lords and religious extremists for most of hits history. Many people couldn't even travel or marry freely. Because of that, there was massive emigration of both persecuted Christians and persecuted Jews to the Americas, where things again unfolded rather differently from the way you seem to think.

I feel sorry for the great suffering that your parents endured at the hands of Nazis, but you yourself weren't persecuted, so don't wrap yourself in the mantle of their suffering. And don't expect to shame Europeans or Americans into viewing Israel more favorably or complying with political demands with your caricature of history.
10:26 January 19, 2013 by guliver
mitanni

I did not suffer and was not born in Europe in that epoca ,that right.

Many other people who were not Jews also suffered, you are completly right also in this point,just to mention millions of people died in Europe in the two world wars.

Did you know that to grow up in a family of both parents Holocaust surviviours is not the same as growing up in a normal regular family? have you ever heard your parents screaming at night in a language you do not understand or taking pills because of PTSD? do you think you may grow in such family without that it will influence on your life?

Mitanni

It has nothing to do with the Israeli Palestinian conflict which I do believe one can solve with 2 states solution, and I will vote for the Labour party which support it,I do not expect nothing from the European or the Americans I believe we can and should solve our problems alone in this region.

Anny one again

Thank you for your answer, I must admite I have never heard about the involvment of Jews in slavery and I will try to read about it, There were Jews probably along the history who were involved in criminal acts,but these people were the minority and not the majority of the community,

In Germany Jews were free in their civil rights and to occupy in free professions just between the 2 world wars,a very short period

The Jews as Nobel prize recievers are phenomen exactly of that short period of history between the 2 war worlds
11:28 January 19, 2013 by trevzns
@guliver #24

You seem to be an open minded individual. Willing to learn and have a civil debate regarding your history and your governments polices. I understand your national security concerns and issues. Your home is Israel and I respect that. However. Unless the state of Israel polices and treatment of the Palestinians and others change, the International community should consider imposing economic blockades and sanctions on the Sate of Israel to get the attention of your state and religious leaders.

How can Israelis expect to have security and peace, when they are the oppressors and occupiers? If the International community does not intervene, Palestinians, Arabs and others in the region will have a long and difficult journey ahead of them.

Next topic. Understandably, you do not agree or have a different version of history in Europe and the Americas during the 1400s -1800s? Your claim that Jews were not involved in the European colonization of Africa or the African slave trade in Europe, the Caribbean and the Americas. Is a distortion of Jewish history.

When you have time or you if care? Do your own research. I do not recommend using wikipedia as your only source for info. Use wikipedia as a good reference. I have found most of the info on wikipedia regarding european african slavery, has been sanitized. And for good reason, its a disturbing and unpleasant part of European-Arab, African history. The majority of African slaves were young children and teenagers. The British have released slave archive photos. That are available online, displaying the human commodities. Commodities of the merchants and traders of the European-Arab, golden age of discovery, trading and recusing Africans, from other illegal slave traders and merchants.

Start your research after the Jews, African and Arab Moors were expelled from Portugal and Spain, by the Christians - the Catholic church, 1492. Look into the histories of Amsterdam, Zeeland, Middelburg the Nederlands. Belgium. London, U.K. and France. South America, Brazil and Surinam. The U.S., early histories, north and south. Hopefully there are no restrictions on books in Israel?

Let me know what your research reveals? This topic can be discussed or debated further via email and not on the Local.
12:05 January 19, 2013 by wood artist
@mitanni

There is a multitude of "evidence" regarding the equivalency of allied actions and the identical events used to convict those in the dock at Nürnburg. I have no idea what you may or may not have read, but let me offer just one simply source that covers a fair number of those events. Find a copy of Douglas Botting's book "In the Ruins of the Reich." If you read nothing else, read the section dealing with the repatriation of the Cossacks. THAT was nothing less than wholesale murder, and absolutely no different than the actions of the Einsatzgruppen der Sicherheitspolizei und des SD. You should have no problem seeing that as a Crime against humanity, which is exactly what it was, perpetrated by the Russians with the assistance of the British...and there is no pretending the British didn't know what was happening and what was going to happen.

There are many other qualified sources for more of the same, and you can study Churchill's writings to find the truth about Bomber Harris and his terror bombing of the German civilian population. In short, I'm sorry to say, you are incorrect in stating that no one has ever found the allies blameless...and the tu Quoque defense is recognized in no legal system anywhere.

wa
12:23 January 19, 2013 by guliver
trevzns thank you. We are going in a few days to election,any forgein international intervention now will be a mistake as it will push the people to vote more for the right wing parties, besides I do not think you can solve this complicated issue with sanctions ,sanctions never solved conflicts but there is a good will in the moderate people on both sides , the leaders must act on both sides nobody can do it instead of us,Netanyaho is not the one who is going to move in that direction neighter Hannie from Hamas, but there are other parties in the center-left political field who understand that the main issue= the solution of the Israeli Palestinian conflict is the issue which has to be put on the table .therefore the labour party will get my vote. I guess there were Jews involved in the criminal slave trade but I hardly believe they were the majority of the Jewish community ,rather certain individual and I hardly believe they were responsabile to all slaves transfer from Africa to USA ,there were probably some important merchants who took part in that activity, but I ask my self what is the issue here,?even if they were involved in that,and if we travel 2500 years ago to the ages of the Kings of Israel,King David occupy cities killed their habitants and burnt them, so it is true the history is full with crimes and in justice and the jews did also bad things during the history,why should I go back to the slavery period as also in 1948 during our independence war were done crimes against the civilians on both sides? No we got no restrictions here ,a free access to all books and internet,I will do it because I really did not hear before about slavery,thanks God it passed from the world history
14:06 January 19, 2013 by Anny One again
@mitanni wood artist has a valid point !

@mitanni Wood Artist has a valid point

John Sack (Concluded)(24 March 1930 ­ 27 March 2004)

...Two years before the book version of Company C was released Sack published what is arguably his most controversial book, An Eye for an Eye (1993). In fact, its subject was so politically and emotionally sensitive that seven years elapsed from the project's inception to the point that a publisher, Basic Books, would print it. In An Eye for an Eye Sack reports that at the end of World War II between sixty thousand and eighty thousand German civilians, including women and children, died in Polish prisons and concentration camps that were run by Jews.

http://www.johnsack.com/dictionary_of_literary_biography_an_eye_for_an_eye.htm

In 1996 and again in 1997, John Sack was invited to speak at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, in Washington, D.C. His speech, Revenge and Redemption, was about the Jews who ran 1,255 concentration camps for German men, women, children and babies at the end of World War II. As you may have read on Associated Press or heard on National Public Radio, the speech was twice canceled by the Museum without explanation. Subsequent to that, John Sack gave the identical speech at the National Press Club, at American colleges, at Real History, U.S.A. (left), and as far away as Canada, Australia and Poland. "He has done fine research, and he speaks brilliantly," says the Director of Real History, U.S.A.

Ironically, I wanted to write about the concentration camps for German in Poland "before" WW2.

Another example, the Jewish prison commander Lola Potok, Czeslaw Geborski, and Solomon Morel, who were never prosecuted,like all the others.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Concentration_camp#Poland
15:29 January 19, 2013 by guliver
Anny one again

I tell you one thing, these are lies told by anti semitic and Nazies.

As one of history students who learnt in Yad Vashem those are imaginary stories.

Jews absulotly did not run concentration camps ,but these poor victim escaped from Europe to Israel and to America as fast has they could ,

The Nazies till today want to wash their blood from the murder of 6 millions of Jews and specialy their young sons who are now Neo Nazies and are not less dangerous to the Jewish people then there fothers.
16:35 January 19, 2013 by Anny One again
Hey guliver

The assimilation of Jews began even before more than 200 years ago in Germany.When they broke through the ghetto walls and settled in the vibrant cities, began the transformation from exiled Jews to Jews envied.First fell off their beards, then the other traditional indica,and finally the badge name change into a harmless Christian names.

There were a number of Jewish poets, composers, writers, etc even before the World Wars.

And Dude,Your chances for a Nobel Prize in History, are getting less till worse.Let me tell you that.

To be honest,I was a little disappointed about the last sentence from Miriam Widman.

"It has, however, only been some 70 years since the horrors of the Holocaust ­ a short time in the arc of history. So don¦#39;t expect things to change ­ at least not for a very long time."

That's why I wanted to throw a few questions in the ring.Because by understanding at all,I think its a little unfair against Germans who were born after the war.Its a kind of racsim,or not?

The European Atrocity You Never Heard About - The Chronicle Review of higher Education

In the largest episode of forced migration in history, millions of German-speaking civilians were sent to Germany from Czechoslovakia and other European countries after World War II by order of the United States, Britain, and the Soviet Union.An estimated 500,000 people died in the course of the organized expulsions; survivors were left in Allied-occupied Germany to fend for themselves.

http://chronicle.com/article/The-European-Atrocity-You/132123/

Why should we change our minds, or have already?
17:07 January 19, 2013 by guliver
Ann One again

thank you ,

well I was occupy in the history of the Jews during the Holocaust a very narrow part of the history and specialy in what happened in Poland and Lithuania between 1939-1945, I am very modest student and I do not believe I will go further from my MA grad ,then I will occupy in work or research in Yad Vashem institute.

Personly I think that Germans who were born after 1945 andeven those who were small children during the war has nothing to do with these crimes and should not be blamed of course.

You are right about the expulsion of the German population from east, it is also true that they suffered,I know exactly what the Russians did to the civilian population in Berlin,I know exactly how Dresden looked like at war end,so the suffering of the civilians in Germany and in the east territories is well known and nobody can ignore that part of the history.
18:22 January 19, 2013 by mitanni
@woodartist "There is a multitude of "evidence" regarding the equivalency of allied actions and the identical events used to convict those in the dock at Nürnburg." "and the tu Quoque defense is recognized in no legal system anywhere."

No, but self-defense is recognized. If you point a loaded gun at me and say "I'm going to kill you", as far as I'm concerned, any response I make is justified. Nazi Germany directly threatened the very existence of the UK and the US, as well as millions of lives, and at the beginning of the war looked like it was going to win. Any response, even a disproportionate one, by the West was justified.

Furthermore, I said that I knew of no evidence of the *West* having committed war crimes. I neither know nor care about what the Russians did. You talk about "the Allies" as if they had some shared responsibility, but the alliance with the Russians was an act of desparation on the part of the West, and WWII turned directly into the cold war.

"In short, I'm sorry to say, you are incorrect in stating that no one has ever found the allies blameless..."

(I think you got confused with your negatives.) No doubt, there are some people who make such an argument. I think a lot of people would get angry if you told them that you believe the US or the UK committed war crimes against Germany im WWII. I'm just telling you: nothing you say comes even close to convincing me.
18:29 January 19, 2013 by Anny One again
@guliver

No I have to thank you !!

Don`t get me wrong on this here.Germany was and is responsible for these terrible crimes and we will never forget that.I'm really thankful for the forgiveness of other countries and peoples,so far as possible.

And I know that it is even much much harder for the Jewish people.I just try to explain with such stories that it is not only on the one side the Nazis and on the other side only victims.It's been a part of this terrible war, it is long enough ago,so we can and should be able to talk about it calmly.Without blaming each other, we should learn from this and never let something like this happens again.Thats why, I will dig up and present more such stories.Be aware of that :)Here is an intresting Article too.

"deflect the full measure of well-deserved blame from the major culprit of the second world war and to provide a scholarly basis for the historically-inaccurate "double genocide" theories, so prevalent recently in the post-communist world, which dangerously distort the history of the second world war and the Holocaust."

TIMOTHY SNYDER'S "Bloodlands" is one of the most impressive books of history.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2010/10/bloodlands

By the way I appreciate your interest
22:46 January 19, 2013 by ChrisRea
"Any response, even a disproportionate one, by the West was justified." (mitanni #42)

Of course, how come we did not realise that earlier? Finally I understand how things should work. If a killer murders somebody, we should kill all his family, including the children. Just like the children targeted and killed in the Dresden bombing. That's the spirit! "Eye for an eye" (ayin tachat ayin) says the sacred Jewish Bible. And if we destroy more it is even better (and justified).

I am glad many countries grew up and left this thinking behind. I wish Middle East could do that too.
23:38 January 19, 2013 by Anny One again
@mitanni

There were a lot of Allied war crimes during WWII.Even after the surrender on May 8th 1945.

The 38th British Infantry Brigade headquarters were set up in Bleiburg and send thousends of German Soldiers directly to hell, called the Bleiburg Massaker

..........en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleiburg_massacre

Same for Eisenhower's Holocaust - His Slaughter Of 1.7 Million Germans

"God, I hate the Germans..." (Dwight David Eisenhower in a letter to his wife in September, 1944)

..........rense.com/general46/germ.htm

The Sorry Fate of German POWs after the surrender and the end of the war

...........truedemocracy.net/hj34/20.html

Other Losses is a 1989 book by Canadian writer James Bacque, in which Bacque alleges that U.S. General Dwight Eisenhower intentionally caused the deaths by starvation or exposure of around a million German prisoners of war held in Western internment camps briefly after the Second World War.

..........en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Losses

Allied war crimes during World War II - Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II

After the End: Who Put the Bad in Bad Kreuznach?

...........exulanten.com/germanPOWs.html

French Moroccan troops of the French Expeditionary Corps, known as Goumiers, committed mass crimes in Italy during and after the Battle of Monte Cassino and in Germany. According to Italian sources, more than 12,000 civilians, above all young and old women, children, were kidnapped, raped, or killed by Goumiers.Later in Germany Goumiers raped women and young girls every day in the French sector, looted, burned houses on fire and prohibited the deletion.

Spam alert on TL you have put .......http://www......in front of the URL addresses
02:47 January 20, 2013 by mitanni
@ChrisRea ""Any response, even a disproportionate one, by the West was justified." (mitanni #42) Of course, how come we did not realise that earlier? Finally I understand how things should work. If a killer murders somebody, we should kill all his family, including the children."

I'm sorry you still don't grasp the difference between self defence and revenge. Morally and legally the difference is clear, and it is part both of regular law and the law of war. Wars of aggression are war crimes, defense against wars of aggression is not. This principle has not changed since WWII.

@AnnyOneAgain "There were a lot of Allied war crimes during WWII.Even after the surrender on May 8th 1945."

There were war crimes by members of the Allied troops. That is not the same as "Allied war crimes". The term "Allied war crimes" implies a joint moral and legal responsibility of all member nations for these crimes, and that did not exist. "The Allies" wasn't a political entity, it was a military cooperation out of dire necessity.

Thanks for compiling this list of allegations, it was interesting to look at them again, but it didn't change my mind. Bacque's claims, for example, were thorough and publicly investigated, as the "Other Losses" page on Wikipedia itself shows, and that page also contains more than enough data and references to disprove his allegations.

Ultimately, you have to ask yourself what you're trying to show with these allegations. It can't be about compensation or changes to military, since the US has spent so much on Germany and made a lot of changes to its military. Are you trying to prove that the two sides in WWII were morally equivalent? Or what?
09:00 January 20, 2013 by ChrisRea
OK, so I understand that you agree that the massacres like the Dresden bombing were pure revenge, having no military meaning, especially as it was pretty clear for everybody at that moment that Germany has no chance to win the war.
16:48 January 20, 2013 by mitanni
@ChrisRea I suggest you read the Wikipedia entry on the Bombing of Dresden; it presents all sides. There is no indication that it was motivated by revenge. At worst, it may have been bad judgment, but even that seems like a hard argument to make.

@guliver To answer your question: actually, I do have a good idea. But I consider it inappropriate to mix up such stories with historical discussions. Did your parents love you? Did they provide a good home? Then count your blessings. Get over this notion that there are "normal families", because there aren't.
18:28 January 20, 2013 by ChrisRea
"There is no indication that it was motivated by revenge." - On the contrary, there are couple of indications that are presented in detail. For example the irrelevance to winning the war and the choosing of civilian targets instead of military ones.

The incidental reason for destroying the city and killing its original inhabitants and the refugees was to "show the Russians when they arrive what Bomber Command can do.¦quot; (internal RAF memo, January 1945)

Even some of those who took part in the operation admitted it was a war crime. Roy Akehurst (wireless operator): "It was completely uncalled for. You can't justify it."

David Pedlow, son of a RAF meteorological officers: "Normally, crews were given a strategic aiming point - anything from a major factory in the middle of nowhere to a small but significant railway junction within a built-up area. The smaller the aiming point and the heavier the concentration of housing around it, the greater would be the civilian casualties - but given that the strike was at a strategic aiming point those casualties could be justified. Only at the Dresden briefing, my father told me, were the crews given no strategic aiming point. They were simply told that anywhere within the built-up area of the city would serve. He felt that Dresden and its civilian population had been the prime target of the raid and that its destruction and their deaths served no strategic purpose, even in the widest terms; that this was a significant departure from accepting civilian deaths as a regrettable but inevitable consequence of the bomber war; and that he had been complicit in what was, at best, a very dubious operation."

Winston Churchill itself wrote a memo to Bomber Harris after the attack: "I feel the need for more precise concentration upon military objectives, such as oil and communications behind the immediate battle-zone, rather than on mere acts of terror and wanton destruction."

The bombing of Dresden was one of the biggest atrocities of WWII.
18:42 January 20, 2013 by guliver
Mitanni

In Israel were done many medical works on the effects of the "holocaust parents" om their children grown,their behaviours and their personality changes ,this in compare to parents who were not born in Europe and did not expierienced the Holocaust,unforthuntly the research had shown an high cases of personality patology ,depression,anxiety among the young children of the holocaust survivors,and this has nothing to do with the parents love but with the parents psicological problems,a clear difference was shown between the reaction of the children who were born to "holocaust parents " to stress in compare to normal families.I will not get into description of how I grew up ,I have the feeling that even if I will try to explain it I will not be able to make other people who did not had the same expierience feel it.

But I do agree with you about the need not to mix historical events with my own personal story.
01:29 January 21, 2013 by mitanni
@guilver Of course, growing up with parents who are Holocaust survivors is going to have negative effects on the kids; you hardly need a study to figure that out. But there are a million other things that can happen in families: drug abuse, violence, child abuse, neglect, job stress, military PTSD, unemployment, poverty, divorce, disease, accidents, eating disorders, etc.

You attach a label to yourself and then think that if only that label didn't apply, your life would be "normal" or "better" somehow. But there is no such thing as a "normal family" or even a "normal life". Some people have an easier life than other people, but I'm not sure they are better off for it.
02:20 January 21, 2013 by Anny One again
@mitanni

What are you trying to sell me here?

Take a look at your coment on #42."Furthermore, I said that I knew of no evidence of the *West* having committed war crimes."" I think a lot of people would get angry if you told them that you believe the US or the UK committed war crimes against Germany im WWII."

I am very sure that the French/Moroccan Gourmiers,the 38th British Infantry Brigade,the same for Eisenhower,Harris and Churchill can be count to the "West"or the "Allies".

Let's be honest,all the atrocities of Hitler, the high command,the military,the actions of the Axis Powers were blamed on the Germans collectively.At that time and to this day no one made a distinction about what, who, when something made out of desperation or the will to survive.

War crimes are War crimes,stop twisting facts here,the reasons are irrelevant. And why do you call facts allegations ?I really do not want to be ungrateful and want to say thanks, but can you please tell me exactly for what ?Again,not want to be ungrateful,but I have my doubts that you know for what !
09:39 January 21, 2013 by mobaisch
comments comments überall.

Although my Palestinian "nationality" but i try all the time to view things unbiased (try my best), specially when its comments and not the real life Palestinians are experiencing every day.. that is another irrelevant story (sarcasm).

anyways, some people here are smart and have good aware comments.

No one is asking you to attack israel, just be not-blind-supporter of anything and question things in your life.. it makes you smarter.. it makes you more fair as a human to other humans..
12:43 January 21, 2013 by Anny One again
@mobaisch,why changing something?

Germany Expands Payments To Nazi Victims.

Stuart Eizenstat said it is a tribute to Germany and officials there that the country continues to acknowledge responsibility for Nazi-era crimes ­ both with the compensation payments and also in its actions."One of the things that drives me is that with all of that, the best surveys out there are there are probably 500,000 survivors alive today worldwide and half of them are in poverty or very close to the poverty line," he told the AP. "This is an ongoing responsibility ­ this is not the end of the road."

"It's a very sharp contrast to what Japan has done in recognizing their responsibilities... it's quite striking."

Conference chairman Berman said the fact that the German government decided to host an event to announce the latest results of negotiations with the Claims Conference at a Berlin event shows it remains committed.

"To me the most significant part of this event ... is that the German government wanted it ... telling again not only the whole world but more importantly telling the German people that it's not over," he said.

Germany has paid ­ primarily to Jewish survivors ­ some (EURO)70 billion ($89 billion) in compensation overall for Nazi crimes since the agreement was signed in 1952.(HuffingtonPost)

IRS reports show that there are 100 employees of the Claims Conference who enjoy salaries of close to 6.9 million dollars. Add to this the lavish spending of money which could otherwise be used to save Holocaust survivors from becoming destitute: The heads of the Claims Conference enjoy many benefits, including first class travel around the world, deluxe hotel accommodation and dining at fancy restaurants.This was found in a December 2006 story posted at the Israeli website Ynet, entitled ¦quot;Where Did the Shoah Money Go?¦quot;.

http://www.shoah.org.uk/2012/09/03/swindlers-list-a-brief-look-at-the-holocaust-reparations-racket/
18:57 January 21, 2013 by guliver
Mittani

Well. I do agree with the other reasons for a "not normal family" though it does not change the situation for those sons of surviviours,the end result is the same all cases from different reasons need many times some proffessional help.

Anny one again

You are right on those shamefull cases,just now was our ex finance minister who was released from a long term jail because of money he stole from the poor surviviours.

My fother never took compensations he did not want, my mother went to Germany was checked by German doctors and got the compesation through the German government,I think it should have been the way to compensate the people directly with -out the

'mediators" of the Claim Organisation ,that was wrong,any way that generation is by now almost disappeared.
20:33 January 22, 2013 by Anny One again
Exactly gulliver.

Thats why I take criticism or admonition not so serious anymore.

The constant accusations (some Germans want a 2.Holocaust) let me be indifferent.

I saw couple of years ago on TV,as a woman was inaugurated as the new Rabbi for a German Jewish community.This has touched me very frankly.

Also that about 250 000 Jews are living in Germany again,I find that pleasing as well.

The immigration of Jewish immigrants from the former Soviet Union increased sharply after German reunification.Since 2000, the numbers of Jewish immigrants are declining again.In the period from 1991 to 2004 about 220,000 Jews emigrated from the CIS to Germany.

Of the 190,000 Jews who immigrated in the 1990s from the CIS, joined about 83,000 to a Jewish community in Germany.In 2004, 85% of all immigrants were due to her advanced age and low proficiency in German(language) permanent recipients of social assistance.

Some 100,000 Israelis now hold German passports.It is not a new new love affair of the Israelis to Germany, for the younger generation,practical considerations play a major role;you do not need visa to move in the U.S. anymore, and can easily get scholarships and has greater freedom to travel than with the Israeli passport, and not because they like Germany.

It is a constant process,we have to wait and see how it develops.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/young-israelis-learning-to-love-germany-and-german-culture-a-828302.html

@ mitanni

YouTube : British Bleiburg Massacre Confessions.

I see there some similarities to German crimes,but no Trial
23:00 January 22, 2013 by mitanni
@AnnyOneAgain

Sorry, I don't see the similarities.
23:49 January 22, 2013 by Anny One again
mitanni !

That does not surprise me, either do not you know it better or simply too little about it

The atomic bombings killed a total of some 92,000 people with a fingersnap.

More 130,000 people died by the end of the consequences of the attack, many more of radiation damages in the following years."Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved,It is the view of the monitoring commission that Japan 31 no later than December 1945 and in all probability prior to 1st. November would have capitulated,even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and no invasion had been planned or if considered. "General (and later President) Dwight Eisenhower - then supreme commander of the Allied Forces and the officer, the 2nd most American military plans World War II in Europe and Japan created - said:"The Japanese were ready to surrender and it was not necessary to hit them with that awful thing." (Newsweek ", 11.11.63, Ike on Ike)It was considered rather as a warning to the Russians.

The bombing of Germany took 5 years, more than 160 cities were totally destroyed, over 600 000 people lost their lives during the attacks. That a human life was worth very little time on both sides.This should be taken into account in the present view of History.Not only in that time,an example;South Korean forces and anti communist groups executed the alleged communist prisoners, along with the Bodo League members without any trials.The Allied US official documents show American officers witnessed and photographed the massacre.There were also British and Australian witnesses.At least 100,000 people were executed on suspicion of supporting communism,others estimate 200,000 killings.International Trial ??(The massacre was wrongly blamed on the communists for decades.Or what about"The Jeju Uprising" was a revolt on Jeju island off the south coast of the Korean Peninsula, beginning on April 3, 1948).During the Korean War in 1951, the air campaign largely devastated North Korea.

Hundreds of thousands of civilians fell victim to bombs and napalm.Estimated from 500,000 to 1,000,000 victims of the bombing in the narrow sense,disregarding the civilian casualties resulting hunger and cold.International Trial??
10:58 January 30, 2013 by ClassicRequisition
Many people forget that Germans themselves were victims of a genocide following WWII where millions of people died. We are more similar than we realize.
07:10 January 31, 2013 by Icke Ricke
Wasn't it a Nazi that was chasing an Ashkenazi, such as I believe Anne Frank was? And isn't an Ashkenazi a German (quoted by Jacob Grimm, with 'nazi' being the slang)? The way I see it in the words is that a National (Nazione) Socialist was hunting down an Ashkenazi German - and Hitler may have used the word "Nazi" to endear him to the German people - just a thought my friends.
Today's headlines
Minister praises Erasmus 'success story'
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Minister praises Erasmus 'success story'

A revamped version of European student exchange programme Erasmus officially launched in Berlin on Thursday with Germany's education minister praising the scheme as a Europe-wide “success story”. READ () »

Turkey tourists lose call to prayer refund bid
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Turkey tourists lose call to prayer refund bid

A German couple has lost their legal fight to get a refund for a Turkish holiday which they said was ruined by the calls to prayer from a nearby mosque. It is just one of a series of court claims by picky German tourists. READ () »

Germany halts arms sales to Russia
Russian troops surround a Ukrainian base in Crimea. Photo: DPA

Germany halts arms sales to Russia

Germany has stopped selling arms to Russia due to the current “political situation”, according to reports on Thursday. The sale of military equipment to Russia by German firms has been criticized by the country’s Nato allies. READ () »

Truck kills man lying in middle of road
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Truck kills man lying in middle of road

Police were searching for witnesses on Wednesday morning following a mysterious road accident in which a 25-year-old man was killed as he lay in the middle of the road. READ () »

Ecclestone bribery trial kicks off in Munich
Bernie Ecclestone in court in Munich on Thursday morning. Photo: DPA

Ecclestone bribery trial kicks off in Munich

UPDATE: Formula One supremo Bernie Ecclestone went on trial in Munich on Thursday facing bribery charges in a case which threatens his nearly 40-year-reign of the motor sport. READ () »

Where are Germany's smartest towns?
Germany's cleverest town. Photo: DPA

Where are Germany's smartest towns?

A brain training website released scores on Wednesday showing which German towns performed best and worst in a range of cognitive tests - with some surprising results. READ () »

April wraps up with stormy week ahead
Lightning over Lake Starnberg, in Bavaria. Photo: DPA

April wraps up with stormy week ahead

The end of April is looking stormy for Germany with hot and cold air mixing and making for wild spring weather over the coming few days, state forecasters DWD said on Wednesday. READ () »

Germany sold €40 million of arms to Russia
Russian troops pictured in March in Crimea. Photo: DPA

Germany sold €40 million of arms to Russia

Germany arms sales to Russia have come under fire following the crisis in Ukraine. In 2012 Germany sold €40 million worth of rifles, pistols and armoured vehicles to the country. READ () »

Munich to get 'Tetris cube' hotel
Photo: Nieto Sobejano Architects, Berlin

Munich to get 'Tetris cube' hotel

Munich's old city centre is to receive an ultra modern addition to its skyline in the shape of a new hotel dubbed 'the Tetris cube'. READ () »

The Local List
German beer culture in 11 gulps
Photo: DPA

German beer culture in 11 gulps

Wednesday marks the 498th anniversary of Germany's celebrated beer purity law, so in honour of nearly half a millennium of hoppy history, this week's Local List tells some beer truths you may not know. READ () »

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