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Far-right activists stage anti-Muslim protest
Photo: DPA

Far-right activists stage anti-Muslim protest

Published: 18 Aug 2012 15:43 GMT+02:00
Updated: 18 Aug 2012 15:43 GMT+02:00

Hundreds of police were braced for clashes on Saturday when around 50 members of the Pro Deutschland group displayed the provocative cartoon alongside banners reading “Stop Islamisation.”

A police spokesman said around 100 far-left and anti-Nazi activists staged a counter-protest nearby, with fears the two sides could descend into violence.

Several years ago, an infamous Danish cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed prompted a violent reaction around the world. The depiction of the prophet is prohibited under Islamic law.

Nevertheless Berlin’s administrative court granted Pro Deutschland the right to march on Thursday following an appeal by three mosque congregations "to prevent the citizens' movement Pro Deutschland from showing so-called Mohammed caricatures in front of their premises."

The court said the cartoons were protected as "artistic freedom" and could not legally be considered as abuse of a religious group.

"Simply showing the Mohammed cartoons does not qualify as a call to hatred or violence against a specific segment of the population," it ruled.

Pro Deutschland have registered a total of nine demonstrations for Saturday and Sunday, including a mosque reputed to be a hotbed of the more radical Islamic Salafist community. The Islamic Council has responded by calling on Muslims to ignore the protests.

In May this year, violence broke out during a similar rally by the extreme right against Salafist Muslims in the western state of North Rhine-Westphalia.

Salafists practice an austere form of Sunni Islam. German officials have accused them of also condoning violence against state institutions.

In June Germany banned a Salafist group and hundreds of police officers raided more than 70 homes, schools and mosques across the country in a clamp-down on "dangerous extremists."

Authorities estimate there are about 2,500 Salafists in Germany.

The Local/AFP/DAPD/ccp

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

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Your comments about this article

19:16 August 18, 2012 by ChrisRea
The photo seems to be taken in Torfstrasse. I was there today when the two meetings took place. There was indeed an impressive display of police force - I counted more than 30 vans. The counter-demonstrators were livelier, with a bus, loudspeakers and lots of music. Many young people from SPD, Die Linke, gay groups (look who stands up for Muslims) or just regular people. Slogans like "Muslime bleiben, Nazis vertreiben", "Wedding is bunt. Kein Ort für Nazis", "Hasta la vista, Rassista" were used a lot.

Here are also two pictures I took with my phone:

http://tinypic.com/r/292bbpj/6

http://tinypic.com/r/j8cr3r/6

All in all, it was a good and well used opportunity to show solidarity against racism and Nazis.
19:48 August 18, 2012 by GolfAlphaYankee
@ChrisRea:

thanks for sharing. I wish I was there ....
20:25 August 18, 2012 by matchstickmann
@ChrisRea: thnx for the info......lets all work for a better Germany for our next generation.
20:43 August 18, 2012 by Eric1
There are good Muslims and bad Muslims. If this is true would the good Muslims please stand up against the Muslims that are racist, bigots, and Jew haters. I haven't seen it, but that's not to say they don't exist.
21:50 August 18, 2012 by Hicham1st
@Eric1: You're right, there are different groups of muslims, myself I am muslim, I don't hate gays, nor lesbians, nor Christians or Jews, we are all brothers and sisters and I assure you that many muslims are like me, I am not alone. However, there are other muslims, I can't say they are bad but I say they're different, and more of a hardliner type, you know you can find this in all religions; hardliners and moderates are two different stories.

@Chrisrea: Many thanks for the pictures, and by the way I like Rea's song Nothing To Fear.
23:12 August 18, 2012 by KamiZ
@Hicham 1st I'm a Muslim as well and am like you. It feels good to see the positive comments here.

That said, one thing should be made clear here. The depiction of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is NOT forbidden in Islamic law. Worshiping him or idolizing, however, is. If you go to the Wikipedia article on Prophet Muhammad you'll see numerous depictions of him by Muslim painters. Muslim scholars are divided on this. However, people (both Muslims and non-Muslims) are too ignorant of Islam to actually go and read the book which preaches a moderate and very open-minded life style.
23:54 August 18, 2012 by bassplayer
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
07:36 August 19, 2012 by Ludwig von America
After 9/11, Americans were told we were attacked by Muslims who hated us and wanted to destroy our way of life. Not long after, hatred of Muslims spread like a wildfire in the U.S. with mainstream media happily feeding the frenzy. Our leaders did very little to stop it. Shoved down our throats were were the fears that all Muslims would rise up and do violence against the "infidel" Americans. However, in the 11 years that followed, not a single act of domestic terrorism by a Muslim was committed. But, in stark contrast there have been multiple acts of terrorism actually committed by non-Muslim citizens. It is the Christian and other non-Muslim faithed people who have committed the mass murders, blowing up of buildings, destruction to property and other terrorist acts. Just look at the U.S. State Dept list of the top 10 domestic terrorist groups in America...there's not a Muslim group among them. This all despite the fact there are between 3 and 5 millions Muslims living in America.

A week ago, a white American male (non-Muslim) walked into a Sikh temple and killed several worshippers because he thought their turbins meant they were Muslims. An example of too much ignorance and not enough understanding and respect for other people.

The same ignorance and self-righteous lunacy is happening in Germany just like in many other parts of the world. And, the country's leaders stand by and watch, doing little to correct it.
10:04 August 19, 2012 by ChrisRea
@ bassplayer

Are you against fair representation? You want taxation without representation? Are you also against integration? You think minorities should have no right?
14:09 August 19, 2012 by A pen
I see rationale being employed by a few however that work of honesty is from the minority. To be truthful, those who wish to live a peaceful life can not hide behind foreign borders pretending to be making a statement. You must confront your own cultures at home where hate is being bred. Do that first then you might be believed abroad. History is not on your side as you are weak in principle.
15:26 August 19, 2012 by browndude
@A Pen Bravo! Well said!!

@Ludwig von America ­ It is a very sad incident at the Sikh Temple in America! There are several similar incidents in Canada and UK as well. Their religious practices are not stringent and are not church/temple destroyers. This is where my conflict with injustice begins.
15:29 August 19, 2012 by crm114
@hicham as a good muslim you undoubtedly regularly visit the mosque, can you tell us whether you ever hear your muslim scholars expounding the same opinions that you express here namely love (or at least toleration) of gays and jews? What do you think of those racist nazi pensioners depicted here, are they bad or are they just different? Why can you not bring yourself to condemn those vociferous and seemingly plentiful muslims who would gladly subjugate kafirs to the will of the prophet? How do you stand on issues like child marriage, honour killings, right to ridicule religion, of any kind? Why do you think there are so few prominent muslims actively promoting toleration?
19:00 August 19, 2012 by DinhoPilot
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
22:19 August 19, 2012 by Hicham1st
@crm114: I didnt say I am a good muslim, I am what I am, I am myself. Yes I go to mosque regularly, I fast Ramadan, I pray five times a day and I am devoted to Islam. Our imams never ever said hate gays, slaughter the infidels or kill the jews, you know why? Because Islam never taught us to do so, Islam never says hate the gay people or kill people of other religions, there is no verse in the quran that says so; however, it is said that we have to kill ONLY in self-defence. If you have heard that in Islam we have to kill the kafirs then it is not from the Quran but instead it is from those hardliners how spoiled the image of Islam totally and who made us, muslims, suffer during our everyday life. You know there is a verse in the Quran that says ( If you kill one person it is like you killed the whole people) I can give you the number of the verse and the German translation if you want. Do me a favour, go and read about Islam, make your researchers and let your tv, radio and newspapers aside, the media is a horrible mean which has deteriorated the image of Islam.

@DinhoPilot: You are scary and horrible!
23:16 August 19, 2012 by GolfAlphaYankee
@crm114: #12

"Why do you think there are so few prominent muslims actively promoting toleration?"

there are more than few of them (with various degrees of moderation) but you wouldn't hear a lot about them because, first they are too busy fighting against the extremists in their countries and not issuing press statements and second, moderate people don't make the news its always the loudest nutjobs who do ....

" How do you stand on issues like child marriage, honour killings, right to ridicule religion, of any kind? Why can you not bring yourself to condemn those vociferous and seemingly plentiful muslims who would gladly subjugate kafirs to the will of the prophet? "

where those that come from? why should we be subjected to stating the obvious even when we are being the subject of racism...

and killin Kafirs?

I hate to bring that to you but go watch Lesley Hazleton , an agnostic Jew, explain

on youtube : watch?v=3Y2Or0LlO6g

most of the arab/muslim societies have moved past child marriage and honor killing (obviously not in such places as Saoudi Arabia, but even there its so rare that such stories make it to the news ..)

on other social issues whoever, gay right, sex, the right to ridicule religions as you put it ... its a long way !

and @Hicham1st #14:

please we have to be objective a bit, I am like you from a muslim background and I am gay..... and on that issue, Islam, exactly like Christianity (unless you are willing to ignore/twist the text) is pretty clear on the subject.
01:00 August 20, 2012 by KamiZ
@cm114

I'm from Pakistan and I used to regularly attend the Friday prayers there. The Imam at the mosque always had a message of peace at my mosque. He used to say that we should be more tolerant of everyone in the world and learn to accept different opinions as a strength rather than an assault. He always stressed the need to educate the masses. Now this is a country which is purportedly the new "hotbed of terrorism" and whatnot.

There are good and bad people everywhere in the world. No ideology, religion, people or country is without its flaws. There are terrorists and murderers in every single world religion. From the Islamic terrorists to the Jewish Orthodox hardliners to the Christians who took blessings from a priest before killing Muslims in Serbrenica to the Hindu extremists in India and Nepal to the Buddhists (both ordinary followers and monks) in Myanmar killing Rohingya.

Most Muslims follow their beliefs, never break the law in whatever country they live in, work and try to provide for their families. But who'd report that on the 24 hour news cycle? Would you wanna hear about Abdul from Algeria who somehow manages to fast during Ramadan with almost no money to buy food yet provides for his family or the guy who blew up 5 people with a bomb?

@GolfAlphaYankee

AWESOME name dude :D. Kudos. That said, I dunno if you know this or not but there was a Sufi saint in present-day Pakistan. His name was Madho Lal Hussain and he's also called Shah Hussain. Look him up on Wikipedia. You might find his life interesting. There is nowhere in the Quran or Hadith where it is expressly forbidden to be gay. The only thing said is that it is a matter between a person and his God. Doesn't sound forbidden to me.
05:17 August 20, 2012 by Mitte
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
07:10 August 20, 2012 by Landmine
Uhm, Ludwig from America, you sure about "in the 11 years that followed, not a single act of domestic terrorism by a Muslim was committed." ?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AmericanAttacks.htm

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001454.html
07:19 August 20, 2012 by browndude
@Mitte - I was surprised with the Norwegian guy too. Why did he kill his own countrymen (kids for heaven sake) to object a religion? He could have spat on the Koran or burned the Koran to make his point.

@Hicham1st - "Our imams never ever said hate gays, slaughter the infidels or kill the jews, you know why? Because Islam never taught us to do so...¦quot;

Are the killers doing it for the 70 virgins or to become a martyr to have another "Taj Mahal" built in his/her name?

"Do me a favour, go and read about Islam, make..."

Do me a favor as well, read Islam history as well. Build other non-Muslim places of worship in the Islamic countries and then I will believe that your Mohamed's preaching¦#39;s about tolerance and acceptance.
08:04 August 20, 2012 by ChrisRea
@ browndude

"Build other non-Muslim places of worship in the Islamic countries and then I will believe that your Mohamed's preaching¦#39;s about tolerance and acceptance."

Well, there are already "other non-Muslim places of worship in the Islamic countries" (some for quite some long now). That makes you a believer of Islam's tolerance and acceptance.
08:11 August 20, 2012 by browndude
@ChrisRea

Those places of worship in Islamic coutries might be looking like the Bamiyan Buddha's statues or there is no one to worship because everyone fled.
09:12 August 20, 2012 by ChrisRea
@ browndude

You really have to verify what the Islamophobe propaganda tells you. For example, take a look of how St. Andrew's United Church of Cairo is doing. http://standrewschurchcairo.com/media/gallery/

Pretty flourishing, isn't it? They really cannot complain of lack of attendance.
10:09 August 20, 2012 by browndude
@ChrisRea

Why is it limited to only a Christian church? What about other faiths? Why not build a big Synagogue and see how long it will stay standing?

Why don't you move to Cario or one of the those Islamic countries?
16:00 August 20, 2012 by Hicham1st
@browndude: yes there are other religions' sacred places in the Arab world, go to Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia etc. you will find plenty of churches and synagogues, the reason why they are not plentiful is that there are not many jews or christians living there, I am sure there would be more of them if there would have been more christians and jews living there. In Morocco there are big synagogues, in Tunisia also and they are still standing high and firm. And do you think my dear that it is easy to build a mosque in Germany? It is not that easy as you think, I come from a southern city of Germany and we did not have the permission to build a mosque but instead we pray in a garage-like place.

@browndude: ''Are the killers doing it for the 70 virgins or to become a martyr to have another "Taj Mahal" built in his/her name?''

They are doing it for their personal agenda, they are sick or psychopaths, Isalm is innocent! It can never be in Islam that they kill and explode bombs shouting 'Allahu akbar'' ''God is Great'' Allah/God didnt ask us to kill the innocent lives be it muslims, jews, christians, buddhists, atheists, etc.

@browndude: ''Do me a favor as well, read Islam history as well. Build other non-Muslim places of worship in the Islamic countries and then I will believe that your Mohamed's preaching¦#39;s about tolerance and acceptance''

We cant build other non-muslim places, it is not as easy as you may think, it is even hard for us to build our own mosques, resources are too limited in almost all the arab world, to build such a place needs more than money and plus the corrupted bureaucratic procedures.
17:36 August 20, 2012 by ChrisRea
@ browndude

You have to read more. Who told you there are no synagogues? For example, the Sha'ar Hashamayim Synagogue in Cairo is 104 years old.

Why should I move to Cairo? Because you dislike Muslims? Where is the connection?
18:04 August 20, 2012 by Hicham1st
@ChrisRea: ''Why should I move to Cairo? Because you dislike Muslims? Where is the connection?''

hahaha...funny one (:
18:30 August 20, 2012 by browndude
@ChrisRea - I mentioned that you move Cairo (or any other Muslim majority country) since you presented that the Muslim world (countries) are peace loving and peachy about other faiths.

A quick look at the Wikipedia on Sha'ar Hashamayim Synagogue.....Today the community numbers 30-40 members, most of them older women.......In February 2010, a booby-trapped suitcase was hurled at the synagogue from a nearby hotel. The suitcase caught fire, but no one was hurt and no damage was reported.

With the current political regime in Cairo, it is not difficult to imagine the worst from happening.

@Hicham1st - They are doing it for their personal agenda, they are sick or psychopaths, Isalm is innocent! It can never be in Islam that they kill and explode bombs shouting 'Allahu akbar'' ''God is Great'' Allah/God didnt ask us to kill the innocent lives be it muslims, jews, christians, buddhists, atheists, etc.

These "psychopaths" were and still are present widely from the beginning of Islam, covering the areas from Al-Andalus to the Indian subcontinent. That is over a thousand years now. Must be a genetic code.

The burga on your women should be taxed or fined (like a traffic ticket). I will say that out rightly and won't hide my feelings about it. All non-Muslims had to pay taxes for the Muslim protection anyway.
19:02 August 20, 2012 by Hicham1st
@browdude: ''These "psychopaths" were and still are present widely from the beginning of Islam, covering the areas from Al-Andalus to the Indian subcontinent. That is over a thousand years now. Must be a genetic code.''

You talk without any evidence, I dont believe you, I know the history of my religion. Psychopaths do exist also in christianity like what happened in Norway last year and shootings that happen every now and then in schools in the US or also in Europe including Germany, so dont make of killing and terrorism a ' Made in Islam' product.

''The burga on your women should be taxed or fined (like a traffic ticket). I will say that out rightly and won't hide my feelings about it. All non-Muslims had to pay taxes for the Muslim protection anyway. ''

The burqa is not from Islam my dear, it is a cultural and traditional thing, if the Burqa should be fined then so should people who go naked in those special beaches, or people with turbans, or rastafari people with their long hair or or or etc. I call it freedom, wear what you want and do live how you want, dont you understand what freedom is?
19:23 August 20, 2012 by browndude
@Hicham1st - "You talk without any evidence,..."

It is a classic technique used by Pakistan and their Taliban buddies. They commit terrorist acts and then say "Show me the proof".

Over and out.
19:35 August 20, 2012 by ChrisRea
@ browndude

I am glad that you came to your senses and stopped claiming that there is no Christian Church or Jewish Synagogue in Egypt.

You say "I mentioned that you move Cairo (or any other Muslim majority country) since you presented that the Muslim world (countries) are peace loving and peachy about other faiths." - Well, there are many places where liberty of faith is permitted. Shall I move to all these places, even if religion does not play a big role in my life? :)
20:20 August 20, 2012 by crm114
@hicham - strange how you and other muslim supporters responding correlate subjugation with elimination -freudian slip?

@gay on other social issues... its a long way ! what is that supposed to mean, i do not follow your argument, please clarify.

@kami " Now this is a country which is purportedly the new "hotbed of terrorism" and whatnot." Are you seriously trying to suggest that Pakistan is not a hotbed of terrorism???

"There are terrorists and murderers in every single world religion". Thats true, however it is only muslims across the globe that are perpetrating violence in the name of the prophet on a virtual daily basis.

"we pray in a garage-like place." but you are permitted to pray and follow your ridiculous religion without the level of hindrance that a jew or christian may encounter in large parts of the muslim world.

@gay "most of the arab/muslim societies have moved past child marriage and honor killing (obviously not in such places as Saoudi Arabia, but even there its so rare that such stories make it to the news ..)

That is simply untrue in the uk alone the kurdish womens rights organisation reports 3000 incidents of honour violence a year, and thats just the reported ones, its a similar picture in Germany, the problem is that the muslim community closes ranks when these issues arise and choose to resolve within the community. Why "obviously not in SA"

@hicham please address the comments of your brother GAY muslim and his assertion that islam is pretty clear on the subject. I suspect you are in denial.

@chris selectively highlighting other religious places or worship in Egypt is pretty disingenuos, what about algeria,KSA, Pakistan,Afghanistan Bahrain,etc etc
20:58 August 20, 2012 by Hicham1st
@browndude:

''It is a classic technique used by Pakistan and their Taliban buddies. They commit terrorist acts and then say "Show me the proof"''.

No it is used by you, you make lots of bla bla and most of it is only nonsense, you think you know lots but actually you know NOTHING.

Furthermore, this technique is rather a classic technique used by the US and the West in their so-called joke of 'war on terror' with which they invaded Irak, Afghanistan killing tens of thousands of civilians.

@crm114: ''@hicham please address the comments of your brother GAY muslim and his assertion that islam is pretty clear on the subject. I suspect you are in denial.''

my brother in Islam is right, I dont deny that islam is clear and so is christianity and judaism. If you can fight then fight against these three religions, dont held Islam responsible for everything.
22:51 August 20, 2012 by Kharabish
In Islam yes it's not allowed gays or lesbian, no alkohol , no pork ,you have to pray and fast but we never say kill them, plus we have in Islam instructions for travelling abroad and how to respect other culture, but respecting your culture doesn't mean I have to practice it.talking about terror compare what happened in last 100 hundred years and you will know where terror came from , not Pakistan or any Moslem country, did Moslem do world war 1 or 2, did Moslem do Japan bombing, did Moslem do Vietnam war, did Moslem do racism against black people in the world we are proud we fought against it, we didn't take Africans to bild our countries as slaves, millions killed in Algeria by France occupation and in India also by uk, thousands killed in Egypt by uk occupation, and in Libya by Italy . I think it's non comparable what Christian did to the wolrd and lastly we don't say that Christianity is bad or terror as the people say aabout Islam because Islam is highly civilised and we respect all religions .
23:01 August 20, 2012 by Englishted
From what I have read the Christian population in many middle eastern countries is dropping like a stone ,as for Jews ,those who live outside Israel in the middle east are brave men/women than me.

Having just returned from a trip to a large city in the middle of England where there is a very large community from Pakistan ,I saw no sign of integration only separation or ghettoisation if you like.

One story caught my eye ,a children's play group has just banned boys over 9 years and any male (even Fathers ) from attending why ?,because it does not want to offend the mainly Muslim community even though this is totally illegal under U.K. law they do it any way .

Read at www.birminghammail.net/.../outrage-as-birmingham-play-centre-bans-dads- 97319-31566468/.

If you want to push a population to the right thats the way to do it ,rightly or wrongly.
23:13 August 20, 2012 by randamurtada
Hi, I¦#39;m a Muslim, & I teach my daughter to RESPECT diversity … we¦#39;re all different & this is something that should be respected, appreciated & of course accepted. Like every other religion/nationality there¦#39;s the good, the bad & the ugly, Muslims; within their own communities are different. Egyptian, Saudi, Emarati, Tunisian, … cultures are all different from one another. I suggest you learn more about Islam & less about Muslims. Finally, freedom is freedom for everyone & not only freedom for those with your ideologies or for people you like.
00:01 August 21, 2012 by ChrisRea
@ crm114

There was no selection - these places of worship popped up first by Google search. And they were enough to prove browndude wrong.
19:18 August 22, 2012 by crm114
@chris - that may well be so, but the more or less complete absence of viable synagogues in non secular muslim states goes quite some way to substantiate claims that islam is not a tolerant religion.
21:15 August 22, 2012 by ChrisRea
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/10/politifact-most-muslim-countries-allow-churches-synagogues/

- "There are lots of Christian churches and synagogues in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Jordan, Indonesia, Qatar, Kuwait. … If you go to any number of so-called Muslim countries you will see thriving Christian and Jewish populations.¦quot; One member of the Iranian Parliament is Jewish, Hooper noted. -

The exceptions are the cities of Mecca and Medina, the equivalent of Vatican.
21:15 August 22, 2012 by Kharabish
That was a good comment because it goes back at you, if you judge that Islam is not tolerant religion because of absence of viable synagogues in non secular states, then you judged christianity as a non tolerant religion also because of the incomplete synagogues in all western countries as well as a lot of laws that limit Moslems worship. A few examples : in genral not enough mosques for the millions of moslems in the western countries and always difficulties to build one, in Germany a law to stop circumsion which is a religious act in Islam and Judaism , in France no hijab in schools , in Belgium no mosques towers (compared to Egypt all churches have very tall towers). In conclusion from your point of view Christianity is not tolerant.
21:18 August 22, 2012 by randamurtada
@crm14 you do realize that if you're racist against any party; you're simply a racist... doesn't matter which party you're racist against... you're speaking about the tolerance of Islam? you're not being very tolerant yourself, are you?
08:50 August 23, 2012 by crm114
@ chris - once again you are cherry picking to support your argument, your concession regards mecca is only a half truth, there are no synagogues in KSA the king has decreed that that non muslims can follow their faith at home, how tolerant is that? The Vatican City is 5 million times smaller than saudi, so your argument based on surface area is a non starter. I see that you still citing either traditionally secular states or those where a non muslim minority is in place. Please tell us about muslim states were Judaism is flourishing as Islam is in large swathes of Western Europe? what about those in Pakistan, Sudan, Yemen, Afghanistan?

@Kharabish, my judgement that islam is intolerant is based on much more than the quantity of non muslim places of worship, Saudi children for instance are regularly paraded on TV encouraged to regurgitate the hate for jews with which they are indoctrinated at an early age. Please explain what you mean by christianity is intolerant because of incomplete synagogues????

The fact that there are not enough mosques is hardly a fault of christianity, perhaps the reproduction rate of muslims should be retarded to align with the paucity of mosques. Restrictions on circumcision , hijabs, minarets are not limitations to worship. In many muslim countries non muslims have to observe strict regulations with regards to their behaviour, do muslims do that in non muslim states , no they don't, verdict Christianity is essentially tolerant.

@randa dislike of religions and in particular islam is not racist, but you can call me all the names you like but when you have finished the truth is still the same, islam is not a tolerant religion. I am not making any claims of toleration for the modern face of islam, you the one doing that but so far have been unable to offer any actual examples of its toleration.
09:27 August 23, 2012 by ChrisRea
@ crm114

Well, you just cherry picked yourself. You are aware that Saudi Arabia does not represent Islam, aren't you? Can please point out exactly where you have seen me making an "argument based on surface area"? I guess not, as you plainly made it up.

You seem also not to pay attention to what is written. I already posted a quote with a list of countries with thriving Christian and Jewish populations.

Can you tell us about Western Europe countries where Judaism is flourishing? I guess not. Let's take for example UK. "Home to the second largest Jewish population in Europe, and has the fifth largest Jewish community worldwide....From 1990 to 2006, the Jewish population showed a decrease from 340,000 Jews to 270,000."

But that does not make Christianity intolerant against Judaism, does it? Why should we apply a different standard to Islam?
14:23 August 23, 2012 by randamurtada
@crm114 "The fact that there are not enough mosques is hardly a fault of christianity"- but not enough churches is the fault of Islam? Mind you, there are enough churches...

"Restrictions on circumcision , hijabs, minarets are not limitations to worship."- it is if they are all a part of worship.

"In many muslim countries non muslims have to observe strict regulations with regards to their behaviour, do muslims do that in non muslim states" seriously? I get rudely stared at by everyone just because i wear hijab, I'm treated like a terrorist / thief in airports, banks, you name it... just because I'm a muslim

"dislike of religions and in particular islam is not racist"- so when Nazis disliked Jews, that was okay? jews disliking christians is okay? disliking Buddhists, that's okay? or is ONLY disliking islam okay?

"but you can call me all the names you like" I did not in fact call you a racist, but if you think you are because you hate a certain group based on their religion or ethnicity, I'll have to agree

"islam is not a tolerant religion."- & you have thoroughly studied islam & discussed its various aspects with knowledgeably muslims & reached that conclusion? i highly doubt it...

"I am not making any claims of toleration for the modern face of islam, you the one doing that but so far have been unable to offer any actual examples of its toleration."- thank god the world does not judge christianity the way you judge islam, obviously you should not be one to represent christianity because i am SURE christianity does not call for injustice.

you want to know about islam, stop coming up with ideas & start asking the right people, & by the right people i dont mean people you like.
18:53 August 23, 2012 by Kharabish
@Kharabish, my judgement that islam is intolerant is based on much more than the quantity of non muslim places of worship, Saudi children for instance are regularly paraded on TV encouraged to regurgitate the hate for jews with which they are indoctrinated at an early age.

We teach all our kids to hate any one who occupy our land whatever his religion we fought Iraq even they are Moslems when they attacked Kawuit or do you teach your kids they love any one who attacks your country.

Please explain what you mean by christianity is intolerant because of incomplete synagogues?? Because from your point of view and I showed you few and only few ex . A few examples : in genral not enough mosques for the millions of moslems in the western countries and always difficulties to build one, in Germany a law to stop circumsion which is a religious act in Islam and Judaism , in France no hijab in schools , in Belgium no mosques towers (compared to Egypt all churches have very tall towers). In conclusion from your point of view Christianity is not tolerant.

The fact that there are not enough mosques is hardly a fault of christianity, perhaps the reproduction rate of muslims should be retarded to align with the paucity of mosques.

First it's not because we reproduce more than you do , it's because Islam nowadays is the fastest growing religion on earth, google the number of converters and you will know. In Egypt we have churches hundered times more than the number of christains which are ready for generations and generations of christians, we don't mind they are multiplied by hundrets or not because at the end they have the right to practice thier religion at ease. so we are more tolerant than you are, because we didn't complain of their number.

Off course it's not our problem that we are getting more and more and you don't, we didn't tell you to stop reproduction it's your choice.

Restrictions on circumcision , hijabs, minarets are not limitations to worship. In many muslim countries non muslims have to observe strict regulations with regards to their behaviour, do muslims do that in non muslim states , no they don't, verdict Christianity is essentially tolerant.

I don't know why you are saying those are not worship if it's not for you this doesn't mean it is not for us also, unless you are a moslem scholar who can say what is worship and what's not. I am sorry to tell they are worship and very important to us and you banded it like banding calls for prayer or you will say this is not worship as well. By the way churches ring the bell freely in our countries to call for your prays.

and I would like to tell you hijab is worship in the bible also :

This verse is from the bible King James 2000 Bible (©2003)

For if the woman is not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it is a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
21:59 August 23, 2012 by crm114
@Kharabish

i disagree, the Pew report, The Future of the Global Muslim Population (2011) indicates that the higher than average rates of reproduction seen in the muslim world coupled with age demographics are the principle forces driving an increased muslim population, specifically conversion accounts for very little in the way of increased headcount indeed other regions like Africa are going the other way so I am interested to know upon what you base your claims?

now I don't believe in this kind of twaddle but the Christian main man allegedly during his sermon on the mount encouraged people who felt smited by their enemies to turn the other cheek and not demand an eye for an eye tooth for a tooth, now doesn't that sound remarkably tolerant, compare with your islamic toleration "We teach all our kids to hate any one who...." Still reckon your are tolerant and christers not?

So if there are insufficient mosques, should non muslim citizens of traditionally non muslim countries provide them for you?

why should children be forced to be circumcised, they have no choice it is foisted upon them, if it is so important then allow the child to make his own decision when he is mature enough to do so?

France is a secular country, it does not permit conspicuous displays of religious adherence of any kind, so get over your persecution complex and learn toleration of the host nation.

I do not wish to be subjected to calls to prayer 5 times a day every day so I am all for its banning (if it is at all banned)

Please refrain from referring to my religion, i find it offensive that you would think that am so devoid of any form of self determination that i need to follow some 2000 year old texts found in a cave.
19:18 August 24, 2012 by crm114
@chris in post #38 you wrote "The exceptions are the cities of Mecca and Medina, the equivalent of Vatican" the inference being, presumably, that you wished to demonstrate that the holy city of islam (which incidently only muslims can enter, hows that for tolerance) was comparable to the Vatican City state, however as the the vatican city is less than 0.5 sqm and is pretty much completely built upon it precludes the building of a mosque. Muslim visitors are naturally most welcome. KSA on the other hand has quite a bit of spare land but as far as I am aware has zero churches and synagogues.

Had you actually read the wiki article which you cherry picked to support your argument you would have have discovered that the figures of the 2001census which you quoted are disputed "Underenumeration of the Jewish population in the UK 2001 Census" for disparate reasons. So it could be that Judaism is actually flourishing under the christian yoke.

moreover, the adherence to any religion (except of course the religion of peace) is on the decline in the UK and in other grown up societies, therefore any decline in the UK is unlikely to be due to intolerant home grown religion.
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