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Anger at Polish plans for nuke plants near Berlin

The Local · 6 Oct 2011, 10:08

Published: 06 Oct 2011 10:08 GMT+02:00

Brandenburg state’s environment ministry has published four possible sites for the nuclear power station, which it says have been recommended by the Polish government – some of which are just a few hundred kilometres from Berlin.

The capital-based Tagesspiegel newspaper said on Thursday that Brandenburg state premier Matthias Platzeck had already delivered a firm objection to the Polish government.

Plans had once been made for a nuclear power station in Gryfino near Schwedt, but there at been uproar at its proximity to the Brandenburg border, the paper said.

The four ‘favourite’ Polish nuclear power plant sites include two on the Baltic Sea coast – Kopan, which the paper said was 345 kilometres from Berlin, and Zarnoweic, which is near Danzig, nearly 340 kilometres away from the German capital.

The Tagesspiegel said that construction of a nuclear power station at the latter site had been started once but had been abandoned after the 1986 Chernobyl disaster.

The third favoured site was Nowe Miasto, the paper said, a good 600 kilometres from Berlin, while the fourth was Klempicz, just 275 kilometres from the German capital. Chernobyl is 1,300 kilometres away, the paper pointed out.

Bernhard Remde, manager at Brandenburg’s consumer protection office, said the fact that the state was being included in the planning process was a great achievement of the process which brought Poland into the European Union.

Brandenburg’s state government, a coalition of centre-left Social Democrats and the socialist Left (Linke) party - as well as the opposition Green party, will all oppose the Polish plans. The conservative Christian Democrats and business-friendly Free Democrats said they disagreed with meddling in another country’s business.

Story continues below…

Germany is committed to shutting down its nuclear power stations by 2022.

The Local/hc

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

Your comments about this article

11:05 October 6, 2011 by tuxfre
Is this a joke?

In straight line you have roughly 630 kms between Frankfurt (DE) and Brest (UA), ... where do Germany wants Poland to put the plant if 600 kms from Berlin is not enough?

I can understand that Germany makes stupid choices based only on emotional reaction and electoral aims from the greens, but they don't have to force all EU to support their stupid decisions !!
11:35 October 6, 2011 by pepsionice
I would suggest that Germany take electrical power from it's mythical magical pocket (that comes after it's closed all of its nuke plants), and give freely to the poor Poles. And when the Dutch threaten to build a nuke plant near the border....give from the mythical magic pocket again. And the same for the French, the Swiss and the Danish.

Surely some brilliant German minds considered this when they were busy planning the dismantling of the German nuke plants.
11:53 October 6, 2011 by frankiep
Atom Kraft, Nein Danke: What possible reason could anyone have for wanting clean nuclear power?!?! Why can't these people just get their electricity from the outlets in the wall like everyone else, and not build these unnecessary and scary looking things?!?!

That should just about sum up the anti nuclear power hysteria in this country.
14:57 October 6, 2011 by florian royack
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
15:12 October 6, 2011 by Shirazz
Fire by friction, rubbing stones....as economical as it could get.

Speaking of which, rubbing two bodies can also cause heat...
15:18 October 6, 2011 by vonSchwerin
I don't like nuclear power either, but Germans have no business telling the Poles what to do inside their own country -- especially 200+ km inside the border!

When I saw the headline, I thought, "Are the Poles building a nuclear power plan directly on the border?" But 350 km from "the German capital" (as the author put it). Whatever.
15:20 October 6, 2011 by reallybigdog
Considering that Fukushima is spewing a radiation cloud skyward 24/7 and well into the foreseeable future its no surprise that those with half a brain will realize that there are far more effective means of generating power. Today we are all being radiated every single day from Fukushima and most people don't even know it!

The accident is the worst man made disaster in history dwarfing Chernobyl many times over!

Much like we can today control what our neighbors do with regards regional planning initiatives specifically adjoining properties it also exists that Countries can and will protect there borders from threats of all kinds including nuclear power plants in which they have concern with.

Germans and every other country definitely have a say when it comes to protecting their borders be it missle defense systems or nuclear facilities when considering the latter are required to be built near water and can effect the water table for hundreds of kilometers in all directions when and if they fail.
15:40 October 6, 2011 by Shirazz
I'm all for Back to Basics (not the Pope's version, though).

If we can survive fine and be safer with less energy consumption than to face or live in fear of catastrophe, then why not.

Fukushima has died down from the head lines, but if you read anything about the people living there today, the fear and misery are still very real like it happened this morning.

I am pro those science and technology, that save lives, not destroy them.

Open for good solutions.
15:41 October 6, 2011 by catjones
One fear at a time please. Now that Sarah Palin has decided not to run, I can concentrate on Polish reactors....or are they Polish reactions?
16:12 October 6, 2011 by reallybigdog
"Fukushima has died down from the head lines, but if you read anything about the people living there today, the fear and misery are still very real like it happened this morning."

The threat hasn't diminished from day 1 and never will!, thats nuclear power it keeps on giving anyway you slice it! That is the real science behind Fukushima. Its not just a Japanese problem BUT the whole world!! No fear mongering required.

The milk you drink the rain that comes down on your home is radiated and depending on the jet stream more so than others. These are not just assumptions anymore.
17:29 October 6, 2011 by raandy
Germany can complain if it likes but the decision to build or not to build is Poland's.
18:43 October 6, 2011 by Englishted
@reallybigdog

Them Japanese know a thing or two ,

"man made" earthquake and tsunami to make the disaster wow.
19:41 October 6, 2011 by Sastry.M
Although it was the genius of a German, Albert Einstein, who theorized phenomenal relativities and equated energy-matter convertibility providing inspiration to many nuclear advancements, the Germans themselves appear to be mistrustful of tapping energy exploited from nuclear potential. Prof.Max Born, another German Nobel Laureate, also jokingly pointed to a misprint as "unclear" instead of "nuclear" in publication of one of his works in appreciation of the error.

Western philosophy contents itself with practical and purposeful applications of human scientific progress while Indian(Oriental) philosophy sews it up with a thread of unbroken spiritual continuity.

If we consider Einsteins eqn. E=mC^2, we merely state the fact of energy that can be released from a defined mass "m" physically available and comprehend with awe , the destructive magnitude when 'm' is completely is converted into nonentity. Here 'C' ,the velocity of light, is used as analogous to velocities related to physical world to substantiate energy equation. But does it offer a complete solution? The fact of generality,however, is that the same magnitude of 'm' of any elemental substance, even though displaying unique physical characteristics of its own, releases the same energy upon its total conversion.

Now, if we isolate 'spirituality' from personal religious conduct and purely restrict to "Consciousness" as actively common to all living forms capable of locomotion and passively to all elemental substances, we succeed at least, in finding a common basis to correlate the many phenomenal facts

Relate it to atheistic God or neutral creative Nature, the power of "Maya" is the Cause of all 'Duality' both in formative 'Principle' and physical 'Relations'. Conceding that 'activity' is present within micro-cosmic nuclear confines of all materials and evidenced more by display in radio active materials, the human consciousness seeking to exploit and tap energies for practical purposes of daily life, cannot avoid the self destructive consciousness nurturing such material powers noting the fact that human beings do not posses the holographically synthesizing creative capability of converting conscious energies into imploded material masses but posses analytic capabilities to explore phenomenal creation, paying for the benefits received, recorded by double entry book keeping conforming to the principle of duality.
20:46 October 6, 2011 by Bryant2012
Poland is a sovereign county with clear and defined borders. I wouldn¦#39;t live there and I¦#39;m not ashamed to say it. Germans shouldn¦#39;t concern themselves with nuclear power plants being built some 350km away from the borders. Just to spite them, I¦#39;ll build the NUCLEAR power plant 2km away from the boarder.

Pretty soon all will be paying outlandish prices for energy and gas in Germany because all the sheep believes that their energy bill will increase by a fraction of a percent point that the government is proclaiming when we go Green. Does anyone remember Jim Jones?

SASTRY---- I'm not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree nor am I the dimmest; however, I gave up trying to comprehend what thoughts you were trying to convey. It just looks like one big run on sentence. This is not an attack and I applaud your efforts but you went zig zag on that thought process.
22:08 October 6, 2011 by DOZ
So many words of wisdom since Fukushima, but not one person has ever delved into the fact that small European Countries that suffer Nuclear Meltdowns risk loosing a large percent of usable areas of their Country. I think this is what sent Merkel on her course. Cut the area sterilized by Chernobyl and paste it onto a German Map and see what I mean.
00:35 October 7, 2011 by neunElf
You should forgive the Poles.

They are merely planning for the tremendous increase in electricity demand as a result of all of the energy intensive German companies leaving Germany and it's very high prices of "free" energy!
08:54 October 7, 2011 by delvek
blovating at its best.

Germany can buy energy from nuke plants along its border and claim to be nuke free! haha.

@catjones: what does Sarah Palin have to do with Germany and english speakers living in Germany?
10:57 October 8, 2011 by wenddiver
@Sastry M- I think your point would be clearer if you stuck to the subject, in this case Polish Nuclear plants. I think everybody enjoyed your interpetation of Einsteins theories, but you tend to lose Western Audiences with the Indian Religion stuff as it is not something we would ordinarily seek out. Still I salute your efforts at contributing to an English language forum and assure you that I would never be as competent in responding to an Indian forum. It just always jars me and takes me off my thought process when we get to the Indian Religion part and harms your argument, which are always different, a fact I congratulate you on. Plase don't take this as a reprimand, more a a friendly sugestion.
13:18 October 8, 2011 by Sastry.M
@Bryant 2012-#14 & wenddiver-#18,

I extend my sincere thanks for the kind interest and suggestive comments expressed by both of you.My friends at home take great pains to keep me on my thought track and your benevolent recognition is helping me in this forum.

As a diploma engineer in electronics and radio communications, now retired, I have been a great admirer of Western analytical methods and creative genius, both in theoretical studies of natural phenomena and practical actualization of the subtle realms of human thought, through technological means.

When I compare the beginning of my studies in early 60's when vacuum tubes served as active elements in all electronic processes to the present day micro miniature elements doing myriads of signal processing jobs, my scales of thought reckoning collapse in all dimensions.

Living and experiencing in the present day world, the progress achieved by my favorite subjects of study have directly made the largest strides and the elements themselves shrunk inversely as small as the 'grey matter' that has conceived and produced them.

I feel proud of the progress and yet yearn for peace and hence my vain attempts to interject irrelevant religion in topical discussions.

As the proverb says "Theory without practice is lame and practice without theory is blind" the present day turmoil of events suggest the necessity of spirituality which, as seen in the Indian case,closely explains all aspects of human mind-consciousness, mental dynamics relating to self and the outer world and above all, free from implored faith. Indian spirituality has nothing to do with personal religion, as different from the way it is interpreted and practiced in Western world. Although slightly difficult to comprehend and understand in the West, it closely appeals to all scientific pursuits in the physical world through subtler realms of human endeavors.

With many thanks--Sastry.M
16:16 October 8, 2011 by Alexander Malinowski
Poland is now soleley dependent on black coal for energy production. This generates a lot of polution that can be felt in Berlin. EU rules regarding carbon dioxid are forcing quick adjustment: either Poland move into nuclear energy or go bankrupt in few years.

Even now unclear rules related to carbon dioxid keep investment in energy sector in Poland on hold and are reason to believe there will black-outs between introduction of the strict rules and beginning of functioning nuclear power plants. Nuclear plants will be build according to EU rules and will be the most modern available and the safest.

In expectation to this situation Belarus and Russia are qucikly building new nuclear power plants near polish borders in order to sell energy.

Germany, against all reason, are closing its nuclear plants that could export energy to Poland.

In this view the protests are wrongly directed (should be against EU carbon dioxid policies, German goverment closing nuclear plants) and completely unreasonable.
14:32 October 9, 2011 by wenddiver
@Sastry.M- As an Engineer, do you think that Nuclear Power is safe enough to proceed. I think it makes sence in the US, where there is lots of land to absorb an accident, but am not so sure that it is wise in densly populated Europe. The accident in Japan has made me question this, if Japanese Engineers can't make something electrical work, I am not sure the world has that technology. We have a sayinin US Tech, 10 years to develope it in the US, one month to reverse engineer it in Japan.
14:20 October 11, 2011 by Sastry.M
@wenddiver,#21,

Your correct and rational assessment regarding use of Nuclear power bespeaks of two aspects. As an Engineer I will consider the practical aspect first. Given the capital investment costs of all things, including extraction and manufacture of radio-active materials, that go up into erection of Nuclear Power generation Plants, the out put power delivered continuously with all inputs maintained with great alacrity and diligence by human beings, finally sets the overall efficiency of nuclear means of power generation.

Your concern of 'safety' addresses only human aspect, and not how efficiently the electrical power generated is distributed or utilized. Sparsely populated , the U.S with vast land areas and resourceful economy, may/can afford to maintain the Plants. This is not true of Europe where wide spread Industry and population density , even if natural efficiency of Europeans in general and noting the Germans in particular, cannot afford to take risk on the long run.

The Japanese disaster came as a shock, reminding humanity that its mind- intellect can only reckon with average and normally expected probabilities of event occurrences in a scientific manner. However human Nescience cannot comprehend beforehand the nascent distribution of natural forces, resulting in natural disasters. Although F.Gauss laid statistical foundations for phenomenal scientific studies, A.Einstein was always awry about its applications by saying "God does not play Dice" and W.Heisenberg has declared that Duality allows to know only one thing at once.
08:40 October 15, 2011 by michelbisson
If the polish government is considering a new nuclear power plant while the world has already shown the results of accidents with such installations, it certainly shows a high level of self imposed blindness. Such catastrophe only happens to other countries, until.... and then it last only a few million years. But if it's only other people who are affected why not.
21:50 October 15, 2011 by docmartin
Wouldn't it be wonderful if there was a giant ball of hydrogen in the sky that would give us all the virtually free and clean and safe energy we would ever need for our planet? Oh wait.....there is! Germany is showing good sense that countries with nuclear power do not..... It is disgusting for any country to put a nuke plant near another countries border. I am on Germany's side 100%.
14:22 October 30, 2011 by Doggy
"Fukushima has died down from the head lines, but if you read anything about the people living there today, the fear and misery are still very real like it happened this morning."

Thanks for remembering Japan.
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