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Israel wants Berlin to finance two new warships

The Local · 23 Oct 2009, 13:44

Published: 23 Oct 2009 13:44 GMT+02:00

Sources within the German government told the paper that Israel wants the Berlin to finance the MEKO corvettes, a sum that would reportedly reach hundreds of millions of euros.

The paper reported that the government has not yet reacted to Israel’s request. But “influential politicians from northern Germany,” where the shipbuilding industry is suffering from the global economic downturn, are apparently supportive in the interest of keeping German shipyards in business.

The shipbuilding contract would go to Hamburg company Blohm + Voss, the paper said.

But the internal weapons system would come from the United States, with the end result being a missile defence system on water.

Israeli naval forces have already received help from the German government. Between 1999 and 2000, three submarines completed by Kiel shipyard Howaldtswerken Deutsche Werft were delivered.

Story continues below…

Meanwhile the government is reportedly paying for two-thirds of two more submarines with fuel-cell power plants priced at €500 million. They are currently under construction in Kiel with plans to deliver them to Israel in 2012.

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

Your comments about this article

14:26 October 23, 2009 by Nemesis
Blohm and Voss did build the Bismarck, so have a good track record in the area of warship building:)

A suggestion, since Israel wants some warships, maybe they could take a Yamato class Battleship design, increase it to four turrets from three for heavy shore bombardment and anti-piracy control. They could make it 5 metres broader and add some very heavy missle, heavier armour on the keel/topside, comand and control, replace 15cm guns with heavy missle and multiple clustered phalanx systems, add anti-submarine capacity, disaster management systems and a series of nuclear power reactors that can also act as a temporary nuclear power station. Then you will have ship capable of taking heavy punishment and also dishing it out. A series of small aircraft carriers, missle crusiers and destoyers would also be good as a compliment:)

Seriously if the German government wants to give shipyard buidlers work, it should design and build the largest cargo ships it can with the latest nuclear engines so as to cut down on greenhouse emissions and increase efficieny of transport of goods to and from the far east.

When the routes across the arctic start to open up over the next 20 years, there will be a corresponding increase of trade around the Artic circle. Germany should position its ship building industry to take full advantage of that.
14:40 October 23, 2009 by seadoo
Did I read that correctly, "give it to them, free"?
15:04 October 23, 2009 by LancashireLad
I'm sorry? Give the things away? Whatever is the reasoning behind that then?
15:04 October 23, 2009 by petenick
Yes, "give them for free" ! Remember 1933-1945? Germany

should always be a strong supporter of Israel!
15:49 October 23, 2009 by janreg58
petenick, if you don't like Germans, what are you doing on this websit? Go to an Israelian site. I don't understand it, all of you who like to throw stones, probably live in glass houses!!!
16:06 October 23, 2009 by DarExc
petenick, if you remember 1933 I'm surprised you know how to use a computer. For the rest of us we live in the 21st century and know Germany has already paid for what it did. Israel isn't the holocaust country, its people from all over the world and has a smaller population ratio of Jews than some western nations have of Christians, so even if Germany still owed money, which it doesn't, why would it give it to Israel?
16:25 October 23, 2009 by -GD-
What a bargain! There's nothing like getting other countries to provide your weapons for free.

It's past time for Germans to get off their knees, stop smiling like a doughnut and tell them to get lost.

The least they could do is spend some American money for them.
16:45 October 23, 2009 by slingshot
Germans should give me some nice weapons and maybe a little cash on the side. After all, I'm of Scottish decent. I'm sure the Germanic tribes did something terrible to my ancestors in the past. Let me know where to forward my shipping address & bank routing numbers. Danke!
16:47 October 23, 2009 by abemarch
Giving any military hardware to Israel is foolhardy. There is no control over its use regardless of what they sign. That has been proven with US military hardware that Israel used against Lebanon in violation of its contract.

Billions of dollars continue to be shelled out to Israel and they have yet to be abide by any UN Resolutions concerning their occupation of Palestine. Why do they need warships? Who do they plan to attack next?
16:48 October 23, 2009 by Kamionet
DarExc, NO amount of money or compensation can make up for how much the German Nazis plundered from Jews, as well as the millions who were murdered in labor and concentration camps. Nevertheless, it's still blood money, and German's should feel honored that the State of Israel considers Germany a friend....which in its heart of heart's it is not as you have just shown. Yours is the true feeling of the majority of Germans and unfortunately because of that, Jews and all foreigners in Germany live under the constant threat of another Holocaust.
17:00 October 23, 2009 by mid503
It is past time for Germany to resist perpetual Israeli blackmail. Why is it that only in the case of Germany that guilt can be transferred from generation to genration? Continually providing military support to the criminal zionist regime is morally wrong.
17:27 October 23, 2009 by ErnestPayne
Let Israel pay the market price if they are desperate for ships. Why should Germany pay the cost when the US could do it just as easily.
17:48 October 23, 2009 by Longjohn
I am not really surprised that Israel makes outlandish demands like that. No one else has chutzpah like that. They will keep t whining and complaining til the end of time. Germany really needs to get a spine and say NO - loud and clear! Enough is enough. I don't know how much of a guilt trip has been laid on the newer generations but it must be considerable if this stuff is taken seriously. However, I have an idea that the banks, the educational system and the courts are pretty much controlled by you-know-who, which would make any opposition to their demands almost impossible, from what we've all seen in the past. How do young Germans feel about being continuously drained of their wealth? And, Petenick, move to Israel if you're not already there.
17:56 October 23, 2009 by rednek1947
Why should the old Nazi's arm the new Nazi's. Maybe they should ask Germany to come and build concentration camps and death chambers for the Palestinians to be sent to. No country should send arms to Israel, especially Germany or the United States.
18:31 October 23, 2009 by delvek
I have to admit, lot of hate in some of these posts.
18:39 October 23, 2009 by Kamionet
And if you're so worried about the Palestinians, bring them to East Germany or put them on Usedom. You can live with the terrorists since they all come through Germany anyway.
19:00 October 23, 2009 by abemarch
Kamionet, you should be sick to your stomach. To see a repeat of atrocities inflicted on the Jews now being inflicted upon the Palestinians by the Jews, should cause tears to flow. Nothing will erase the past. It happened. It's time to move on. Stop using guilt and intimidation as an excuse for the unlawful occupation of Palestine. Justifying acts of terror in the name of security with the intent of colonization is abominable. The Palestinians are held prisoner by a strong power with uncontrolled weapons of mass destruction. The greatest threat to world peace is the unresolved situation in Palestine/Israel. It is the root of terrorist activity.
19:13 October 23, 2009 by Kamionet
You're very wrong abemarch and you wouldn't have them as your next door neighbor with the threat of being bombed at any moment. You and Iran should get together. As far as moving on is concerned, never happen. No one will forget the names of Auschwitz, Dachau, Buchenwald, Treblinka, Majdanek, Bergen-Belsen and the millions of innocent children who were gassed and burned. And the silence of the Pope. See Schindler's list again. Israel has every right to defend itself. Israel is not the agressor. When the Arab world recognizes Israel as normal country like Germany with all its problems, then there will be peace. If you think Israel enjoys the situation as it is now, the same way as Hitler's Willing Executioner's you are sadly mistaken. That is the root of Terrorism in all its forms. No one wants to see a Jewish State.
19:16 October 23, 2009 by Major B
Just love the European arguments above. It's long past time to stop the WW II guilt game. Just look at the unfair blame for the causes of 1st World War and the unjust settlements, when all were guilty. We see a series of long running continental conflicts starting before the Romans, thru the Hundred Years War, the Napoleonic and to the last century. Many collaborated, turned a blind eye, or took advantage of the Holocaust. It is right and just to support Israeli defense and ALL major European powers should participate
19:16 October 23, 2009 by Kamionet
JeffZ, I am an American citizen with Polish Jewish roots who was born in Munich. The Deutsche Bank can spend some of the money it has stolen from the German people on the upkeep of the boats.
19:47 October 23, 2009 by abemarch
Kamionet,

your comment: "as far as moving on is concerned, never happen." That is precisely the problem. Forgiveness is not part of the Jewish religion. Hate begets hate. Retaliation begets retaliation. How can there be peace when no one is willing to forgive or forget?
19:52 October 23, 2009 by nepo77
Israel has been getting free german weapons for decades, this isnt anything "unnormal". It just showes Israel cant sustain itself. It has to infiltrate western societies to survive.
21:17 October 23, 2009 by Major B
Oh yes. Just blame Israel for everything. No, the Romans didn't burn down Jerusalem and scatter the Jewish nation. Oh no, there was no Spanish Inquisition, the Europeans have ALWAYS treated the Jews with dignity and respect. There were no pograms in Russia or Poland. There were no French(and Dutch, Polish, Ukrainian, Romanian, etc) collabarators who lept at the chance to steal when the Nazi's started the Holocaust. No, it was the Chinese who exported the Africans to the Americas. Enough already.

As a member of a previously dominated and persecuted group I fully understand the feelings of oppression and determination "to never" let it happen again. Don't believe me. Ask any proud Greek about Turkish occupation for 400 years and get ready to see a calm, wise and reasonable person turn almost insane. Sorry, it will be two more generations before Europeans have a right to criticize Israel. There would have been no Holocaust, and therefore no Israel, had Britain and France stood firm in time. There would have been no Holocaust if there had been courage instead of fecklessness. The children often have to pay for the sins of the parents. What would you do if you were surrounded by enemies? Well, documented European history over the last 2000 years tells the answer time after time.
21:37 October 23, 2009 by mombassa
"Major B", Europeans don't need a "right" to criticize Israel, and you're no one to declare whether they have a right to do so or not. F*ck you and the horse you rode in on.
22:10 October 23, 2009 by gkh50
Bonkers. With respect to the past (I am British, and served my country), it seems that they are using the guilt card again for their own financial gain and agree with Fitnessgirl as blackmail and extortion. If they want them, build them and LEASE it to them, or provide support to the workers via special finance agreement for civilian vessels. Germany GIVING warships to Isreal send a negative symbolic message to the world.
00:42 October 24, 2009 by Teuton
Fitnessgirl and gkh50 you are so right.

I'm not a fan of Hamas (or Palestine, for that matter) but expecting two war ships for free is selfish.

We have to realize that there were other Holocaust victims as well.

Should we give the Jehovah's Witness Church two warships? What about the gay community? The Communist Party?

The reason they are asking Berlin is because of the massive guilt complex. There is no other reason.
03:44 October 24, 2009 by Californian
To those that would deny Israel anything they want...

You're just being anti-Semitic.

They are god's chosen people.

Let them do what they want.

*sarcasm off

Did you fall for that^^?, neither did I...

Israel isn't a country that wants everything handed to it on a plate, it is a country that has everything there on the plate already. The dish is called "Carte Blanche".

I suppose speaking against Israel, or even saying "No" is again being "anti-Semitic".

I'm hoping the German administration see's the light, and gives a resounding middle-finger erm...A Resounding NO to this request, and future ones as well...

If the Government of Israel hasn't noticed lately, we are in a Global Recession at the moment.

The Good German People deserve any extra benefits its Own Government might be able to afford First...

Assisting Israel with equipment that will undoubtedly kill other people falls a bit farther down the list of priorities for the German taxpayer's Euro and Will.

I suggest We(the German tax payers) instead re-invest that money back into the German people, where it belongs and will do the most Good...

Have a nice day all :-)
04:00 October 24, 2009 by Fretzel
That's what I call "Free Trade" - ONE WAY only.
13:45 October 24, 2009 by tinus43
@major b

"No, it was the Chinese who exported the Africans to the Americas."

Actually the majority of European slave traders were jews. Look it up!
15:56 October 24, 2009 by Major B
Yep, virulent anti-semitism is alive and well -- but intelligent discussion isn't. Just knew there would be some neanderthals who would keep waving their clubs in the air and "blaming the Jews" for every problem. Yes, the the Jewish traders who dominated shipping companies of the colonial powers -- geez. New theory: "jew hating" has evolved and is now in the DNA of the children. Hope the German government and people stand firm and "Never Again" let the troglodytes gain influence.
19:02 October 24, 2009 by mondogar
this makes me sick. why is the debate here about the fact that the ships will be given for free. israel is an appalling nation that kills innoent people. f%@k that. f@%k israel. f&%k war.
20:50 October 25, 2009 by MAT-CT-USA
I don't understand the logic of Israel getting the ships for free. If you ordered a delivery of oranges or anything else that is produced in Israel I doubt very much that you could get even a discount let alone something free.
21:35 October 25, 2009 by samuel clemens
In the wake of Israel giving the international community the middle finger in response to criticism of the Israeli atrocities in Gaza, not to mention Israel's illegal 10 year siege of Gaza, why on Earth would Germany want to supply Israel with still more weaponry? Why would it do so even for money, much less for free??!

The message to the world, at this late date, will certainly not be that Germany is still feeling guilty about WWII. It will look more like the fond nurturing of a country that has finally learned to turn its eternal victimhood into eager imitation of its erst-while persecutor. It will begin to blur the difference between Germany of the past and Germany of the present. Does Germany really want to do that?
10:12 October 26, 2009 by nilweiss
And while you're at it. why doesn't 'Berlin' give them some sailors to work on the ship(s) so they can do the dirty work too.

Germany's obligations to Israel is friendship and friends tell friends when they are doing wrong. They don't give the friend a gun to help them kill innocent people. Why would Germany help jews kill people as an atonement for loosing WWII. It makes no sense. One of the very last things Schroder did before leaving office was give Israel a nuke capable submarine.

Why would Germany want to promote war by giving a weapon of mass destruction?

Germany for once, must stand up and say no. Even to Israel.

Weapons like these don't promote peace but occupation and death. No I say, to weapon sales (or gifts) from any country period.
00:53 October 30, 2009 by Danton
If building warships is good for the German economy, wouldn't it be better to build the ships for the German Navy and staff them with German sailors?

Before the ships sail for Haifa, be sure to load Kafka's manuscript on board.
02:57 November 15, 2009 by BerlinParty
Nothing is free as the trolling headline implys. In partial payment Israel is providing aerial recon drones for use by German troops in Afghanistan
16:12 November 18, 2009 by Dempsey
?Hitler besiegen, Warum Israel sich endlich vom Holocaust lösen muss? (Hitler's defeat, Why Israel must finally solve the Holocaust) by Avraham Burg (Campus Verlag, Frankfurt, 280 pages, 22.90 euros).

Norman G. Finkelstein has written of the Holocaust Industry, Arno Meyer has been in the 80s by a Holocaust religion talk. Now Avraham Burg, formely Chairman of the Jewish Agency and senior minister in Israel goverment write his "Holocaust Industry" (mark II),: "To Defeat Hitler."

The author is Avraham Burg, who in the 1997, as the Chairman of the Jewish Agency together with Israel Singer and Edgar Bronfman of the World Jewish Congress (WJC), were fighting for the return of the funds camped since World War II in Swiss bank accounts. To help the owners of unclaimed assets to their right, he pushed the Holocaust eloquently to the center of his argument. But his attitude about the Holocaust ("The ubiquitous Holocaust") over the years, apparently also moved significantly since 1997, then he said in an interview with the Spigel about the conflict with Switzerland in order to question the Jewish assets stored clear the memory of the Shoah as a torch proudly before him. The then Chairman of the Jewish Agency said then: "I do my best to represent both morally and legally sound property claims on behalf of six million murdered Jews. And then dare this man [the Swiss economics minister Delamuraz], over which, incidentally, would say something, call it a blackmail. Thus, he insulted all the Jews in a manner that prevents me from me ever again sit at a table with him. "

Burg argues that today Jews are neither persecuted nor oppressed, and that Israel is a powerful state. Nonetheless, he maintains, Israeli Jews have become fearful and self-pitying oppressors. When it?s attacked or criticized, he says, Israel acts like ?a small vulnerable country.? And it perpetuates a confrontational outlook based on the notion that Jews face a preternaturally hostile world. According to Burg, this posture is sustained by constant references to the Holocaust and by demonizing Israel?s enemies and exaggerating their power. Thus, everyone ?is a Nazi, everyone is an Arab, everyone hates us, the entire world is against us.?

He has given the right-wing Berliner [url=http://www.jungefreiheit.de/Single-News-Display.154+M5296879bc15.0.html]"Junge Freiheit" an interview. The last question was , "would that Israel exploit the Holocaust to shackle Germany"
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